January 12, 2000
Texas Baptist Forum
Regretful division
___We live in a time in which differing views of God's word are regretfully and unnecessarily dividing us.
___In my 77 years of Christian life, I have never seen such un-Christian distractionsamong Baptists. It is heart-breaking.
E-mail the editor at marvknox@baptiststandard.com
___If we would discontinue our venomous, vengeful tongues and pens and return to the task God has given us, all this division talk could be put to rest.
___There is a guaranteed cure for this unrest: Focus on the most important commandment the Lord gave us: "Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart and with all thy soul and with all thy mind. ... Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself."
___ Ross Reding
___ Denton
Hope remains
___In Romans 12:18 and 14:19, the Apostle Paul (the writer of Ephesians 5) talks about peace and unity as distinctive traits of believers. However, some Baptists see "no hope for reconciliation between the conventions."
___I am 30 and a recent seminary graduate, and most of us at seminary and in my generation do not want our ultimate loyalty to be in our denomination. We have chosen to be Baptists, but we are not interested in fighting political battles or pushing human agendas. We wish to listen to other Christians and work with them in spreading the gospel. We want to follow God's will; he will lead many of us to serve outside Texas.
___Teenagers have the same desire, yet they likely will be the ones who will bring about even more change because of their commitment of leadership, enjoyment of challenge and the view of the bigger picture.
___Our two generations eventually are going to define our denomination. It may take us to bring unity and edification to a conflicted group of believers, but it doesn't have to.
___Baptists can decide to mend and heal now, setting a wonderful example for our youth, but it will take visionary leadership, trust in the Lord and a healthy dose of humbleness.
___The situation is not hopeless. Hopelessness comes without Christ. If Christ is in it, there always is hope.
___ Greg Bowman
___ Lancaster
Standing alone
___A common theme for Texas Baptist apologists is the many programs and financial resources of the Baptist General Convention of Texas. The clear point is, "The BGCT can stand alone and do quite nicely."
___My grandson and granddaughter go to a Southern Baptist church in Kansas. Their state convention, unlike the BGCT, is not adept at standing alone. They rely heavily on what the Southern Baptist Convention can do for them.
___My desire to retain close ties to the SBC is driven only partly by theology. It primarily is driven by a desire to support the many folks who benefit from the SBC, especially those two little kids in Kansas.
___I wonder if our BGCT leaders are really driven by theology and a quest for God's truth. I fear they are prideful, willing to prove at any cost they are able to stand alone.
___ Jim Suttle
___ Midland
Lay aside sins
___What is all this Baptist bickering about?
___Galatians 3, John 17, Ephesians 1 and other Scriptures point to the fact Jesus eliminates distinctives except for himself. He does this by dying and calling us to die to self. Organizational distinctives in place of personal ones fly in the face of the fact Jesus is building his church on one great central truth--Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living God.
___Romans 14 makes it very clear that we are to get out of each others' faces about this or that manner of exalting God.
___Jesus has but one church. We may claim this or that name, but Jesus said he would build his church. He asks us to make disciples. Let's quit wasting energy, time and emotion trying to do his or angels' work (parable of the tares).
___What arrogance to presume to take on what he assigned to others! The Lord adds to the church those who are being saved.
___Lay aside sins of little thinking that so easily beset us and focus our vision upon the author and finisher of our faith, Jesus Christ.
___ Sam Fox
___ Weatherford
Stop attacking
___The battle between moderates and fundamentalists has spawned attitudes like the one expressed by Fred Teague in his letter to the editor, "Negative image" (Dec. 22).
___First, I am not sure who the "we" are that have hung their heads in embarrassment and shame at the "antics" of the SBC leaders. I would love to know the Scripture reference against targeting people groups with the gospel. Our foreign missionaries have been doing that for years. Is sharing Jesus an antic?
___He also says SBC leaders have established a negative image. Jesus also had a negative image because he taught truth and not what people wanted to hear. To say spreading the gospel is detrimental to the cause of Christ borders on heresy.
___Perhaps Teague wants to wrap a more palatable gospel up in a seeker-sensitive box and have Santa deliver it in the middle of the night so as not to offend anyone.
___It is time that moderates and fundamentalists alike stop attacking each other and get about the work of the Great Commission.
___ Jim Ballard
___ Edgewood
As high as we get
___I was saddened by Daniel Akin's letter (Dec. 22) defending Paige Patterson and Al Mohler in regard to Ken Chafin's letter (Dec. 8).
___My concern is not the right or the wrong, or who said what about whom, but rather that Akin finds it necessary to list the accomplishments of these men to justify their positions and opinions.
___As a recently retired pastor of 30 years, I wonder if I missed the mark. Was I supposed to seek fame and name recognition or be a servant to those the Lord entrusted into my care?
___Visiting the sick, caring for the needy, counseling the hurting, teaching the Bible and preaching the gospel are privileges I never felt worthy of except they be granted me by the grace of God.
___I am convinced God loves me, Jesus died for me and when I accepted Jesus as my personal Lord and Savior I received all the credibility I will ever need.
___Saved is as high as we get!
___I have no ax to grind, and I pray daily for all our leaders (trusted servants).
___Give me humility over power anytime. Basking in our accomplishments, publicly proclaiming who baptized the most, who gave the most money and who is greatest among us is not in keeping with the concept of servanthood.
___I thank God we will not be judged by how others treat us, but how we have treated them.
___ Ray Vowell
___ Lake Corpus Christi
Single-issue voter
___Charles Floyd referred to the folly of "single-issue platforms" (Dec. 1). Let me tell you why I support the so-called Religious Right and their support of the Republican Party.
___Sadly, both parties are moving toward the middle, so much so that there seems to be little difference between the two.
___One big difference is the Democrats continue to support abortions. Even partial-birth abortions are all right according to our president. How anyone can support a party that supports the killing of God's children in the womb is an unanswerable question to me.
___If this makes me a one-issue voter, then I wear that label proudly.
___ Wallace Pippin
___ Grandview
Shock needed
___I commend you on your editorial on baptism (Dec. 15). If I didn't know better, I would swear you were a "conservative."
___I also wish to respond to the "Appalling photo" letter (Dec. 15). We as Christians need to be shocked at times to remind us a fetus is a human being created by our almighty God.
___ F.A. Taylor Jr.
___ Kempner
Not like Falwell
___The reason religious leaders in Chicago don't want Baptists to come to their city next summer (Dec. 8) is because they think we're all like Jerry Falwell, because he's always speaking for us.
___They think we're all pig-headed, obnoxious, arrogant, with an attitude.
___We need to reassure them that neither Falwell nor anyone like him is coming to Chicago.
___ Billie J. Whaley
___ Jacksboro
Interpretation
___After reading Charles Wade's explanation of why he does not accept the Southern Baptist Convention statement on the family (Dec.1), I would like to respond.
___Putting politics aside, it seems the problem is interpretation. In Ephesians 5:22-23,there is a clear teaching on the roles of husbands and wives. The submission of wives to husbands is not to be interpreted as the wife "obeying the commands" of her husband, but rather the acknowledgement of his spiritual leadership (v. 23). In that sense, it is a unique role of the wife.
___Mutual submission (v. 21) is certainly applicable, not only in the husband-wife relationship, but in every relationship. However, it is not an immediate part of the context (vs. 22-33). Note the commas after each verse from 18 to 20 and then a period after 21. Verse 21 on mutual submission is general to all believers, but verse 22 is specifically to wives.
___In the general sense, you could say that every husband and wife should be filled with the spirit (v. 18), but this is not in the husband-wife context either.
___It should be noted that the teaching of wives submitting to their husbands is not limited to this one passage. See Colossians 3:18 and 1 Peter 3:1.
___It would be helpful to hear from our newly elected president, Clyde Glazener, on how he interprets Ephesians 5:22-24. Is this cultural or is it applicable for today?
___A lot of pre-marital counseling and pulpit preaching rests on this.
___Terry Gayle
___San Antonio
Patterson responds to Chafin
___Regarding Kenneth Chafin's letter (Dec.8), Chafin continues to make the same mistake he has always made. Baptists do, in fact, differ in their interpretation of the Scriptures on many matters, but Calvinists will seldom, if ever, be found doubting the absolute veracity of Holy Scripture.
___ The issue remains whether or not every syllable of the Bible is true. Once we believe that every syllable is true, then it is inevitable that there will be differences of persuasion in
___While I am amazed that Chafin resurfaced the incident on the "Donahue" show, I am happy he did because it illustrates the point. Chafin said on television that he believed his rabbi friend would be in heaven, even if the rabbi did not receive Christ as his Savior.
___ Chafin is certainly entitled to this view, but it does illustrate perfectly the difference in dicussions about Calvinism and the whole issue under debate for the past 20 years in the Southern Baptist Convention. Jesus said: "I am the way, the truth and the life. No man comes to the Father but by me." Chafin's position directly contradicted both Jesus and the word of God.
___While I did not place Al Mohler at Southern Baptist Theological Seminary (the trustees elected him), I could not possibly be more elated with the ministry and leadership of Mohler. The fact we occasionally differ does no t change the fact we both believe every utterance of God's word and, hence, work together and enjoy the closest of personal friendship.
___I cannot help but wonder if I do not detect in Chafin's letter just a tinge of bitterness.
___Paige Patterson, President
___ Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary
___ Wake Forest, N.C.
What were we really trying to say?
___ At the 1998 Southern Baptist Convention, a statement was passed that addressed the role of men and women. This statement spoke specifically to women submitting to their husbands. It received immediate reactions from the national media and from segments of our Southern Baptist membership.
___ Those who were a part of the passing of the statement defended it on the basis that it
___ In the passage of this statement, what were we really trying to say?
___ At the 1999 Texas Baptist convention, action was taken which dealt with this same subject. In this most recent action, the submission phrase was omitted. This omission has caught the attention of the media. Again, as has been said before, "It's not always what you say that makes a difference, but sometimes it's what you don't say that makes a difference."
___ At our Texas Baptist convention, what were we really trying to say?
___ Believing, perhaps naively, that most Southern Baptists are Bible believing, it troubles me deeply that in two efforts to make positive affirmations about God's word we produced significant negative reaction within our own ranks.
___ Therefore, I ask again, what were we "really trying to say" at the Southern Baptist Convention and at the Texas Baptist convention? Were the statements really meant to be God-honoring and to further the cause of Christ?
___Gary Teague
___Fort Worth
Cheese, peanut butter and acceptance
___When it comes to the subject of cheese, I have some definite convictions. I do not like cheese in any form. Even on pizzas, I insist there be no cheese.
___In every church, there are those divided on certain issues. If a church openly came out for either the Republican or Democratic political party, a portion of the membership probably would cease attending. If the church advocates totally no abortions, there are some who won't swallow that decision.
___Some churches have publicly informed their members (by vote or by other means) their objection to the wives' submission addition to the Baptist Faith & Message.
___ Except for self-appointed church theologians, most Christians do not care if you dislike cheese and favor peanut butter. They have learned to accept and love one another even though the other Christian does not agree with them.
___All this cheese business is not what is important to most Christians. Reaching the unsaved, lost world is what it is all about! Like my wife and me, we loved each other in spite of our differences. I could have made an issue of cheese vs. peanut butter, but it may have led to a divorce.
___If you want a large-scale divorce within your church, just bring up these matters in your church business meeting. My greatest fear for our Baptist churches is that thoughtless so-called theologians will make an issue of these items and split their churches while forgetting the many thousands of unreached neighbors around them.
___ Gilbert R. Thornton
___ Longview
Read whole article
___ I have read repeatedly Article 18 "The Family," in the Baptist Faith and Message--all four paragraphs.
___ Spotlight readers who focus on "to submit" evidently discount the context of the six
___ Please read again Ephesians 5:22-33 and note the authors of Article 18 are accurate.
___ Do certain leaders have political agendas not readily evident in this article? The conflicts initially appear to be amusing and immature, but they undermine goodwill, the Cooperative Program and our missions leadership.
___ Hopefully your church (like mine) has or will adopt Article 18, independent of convention hype.
___ Baxter F. Womack
___ Austin
Punctuation is important
___ I am not a spokesman for the Southern Baptist Convention, nor am I a Bible scholar. I would, however, like to comment about the article that quotes from the Committee on Baptist Integrity (Jan. 5).
___ I want to comment on two areas that I seem to keep hearing about in the Standard with
___ Just as some have a positive spin on the use of the term "pro-choice" when we all know what that really means, the Baptist General Convention of Texas continues to say the vote in El Paso "reaffirmed the 1963 Baptist Faith & Message statement." What the vote did, and this is obvious to one and all, is reject the SBC's more recent 1998 BF&M statement. The 1963 statement is still there, just expanded by the 1998 revision.
___ Why is that concept so hard to explain and grasp? This rejection is what the SBC complained about, not the "reaffirmation" of the 1963 statement.
___ Secondly, is the Bible contradictory or is it inerrant? Ephesians 5:21 comes before 5:22, where Paul states wives should submit to their husbands. There is a period, and in many translations a paragraph, separating these two verses. In 5:21, Paul does talk about mutual submission, but that verse is an obvious continuation of the thoughts in 5:18, 5:19 and 5:20 (most translations separate these verses with a semicolon.) It should be clear that in the verses prior to 5:22 Paul is addressing the church and church members. He shifts gears and directs his comments specifically to husbands and wives at verse 5:22. Why is this so hard to explain and grasp?
___ It seems to me that the Baptist General Convention of Texas really wants to confuse these issues and not clearly explain and state their position.
___ Gary Wood
___ Houston
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