June 12, 2000
Texas Baptist Forum
Same Daddy
___Please publish more stories about people and organizations that are really working forthe Lord, like the Dallas Baptist University success (May 29).
E-mail the editor at marvknox@baptiststandard.com
___I am so sick and tired of name-calling. It sounds like two bunches of kids in a dark street yelling, "My daddy can beat your daddy." When they get home, they will discover they have the same Daddy.
___ Burl McClellan
___ Granbury
Love eraser
___Southern Baptists are autonomous, but the Baptist Faith & Message committee chooses and interprets Scripture for us. Are they imitating the early church council that baptized babies for salvation? Those not in favor weren't called moderates but Anabaptists.
___Should a "think tank" replace the Holy Spirit in teaching Scripture? Priesthood of each Christian is Baptist belief. They are making cobwebs that snare trusting people. We need to vote the spiders out of office.
___They twisted Scripture that makes husband and wife a beautiful partnership into a pecking order.
___Now they say, "Scripture cannot be set against Scripture!" Does that mean other Scripture cannot be used to prove their interpretation wrong? That road leads to a pope.
___Those who make inerrancy their God will scream with Jim Richards: "Those who depart theologically will be identified and called to repent" (Nov. 18, 1998).
___Sounds like their refusal to know truth has erased any love for their brother, and they'd like an Inquisition to deal with heretics.
___ Rex Ray
___ Bonham
Baptist faith
___An interesting comment on the 1963 Baptist Faith & Message comes from the late Herschel Hobbs in his book "The Baptist Faith & Message":
___"In all likelihood, the only thing that would divide Southern Baptists with regard to their faith would be for one group ... to attempt to force upon others a creedal faith. So long as they hold to the competency of the soul in religion, they will remain as one body in the faith.
___"It should be noted that these statements (in the preamble to the 1963 Baptist Faith & Message, about soul competency as well as confessions versus creeds) are as much a part of the overall statement adopted in 1963 as are the various elements of faith found in the body of it. If this be denied or ignored, then the statement becomes a creed. ... Whatever the problems which may arise, Baptists must continue to hold to their basic and distinct principle of the competency of the soul in religion. For this is the rock whence they are hewn. The rock whence we are hewn."
___Was Hobbs saying those who remove or ignore the vital truths of confessional faith rather than creedal faith and soul competency are no longer Baptists?
___ Bentley Gwyn
___ Colorado City
Long shadow
___Herschel Hobbs calls the competency of the soul "Baptists' distinctive belief."
___I am shocked Hobbs, who was the most respected pastor/ theologian in our convention for many years, can be so easily ignored. E.Y. Mullins, who is dead and cannot defend himself, has been accused of being a liberal. Is that true of Hobbs?
___I found myself in enthusiastic agreement with 95 percent of the revised Baptist Faith & Message (and willing to live with the other 5 percent), but the intentional exclusion of the paragraph regarding soul competency and the priesthood of the believer casts a shadow over 100 percent of it.
___ Bruce Webb
___ Jacksonville
Open office
___The proposed Baptist Faith & Message states, "While both men and women are gifted for service in the church, the office of pastor is limited to men as qualified by Scripture." Poppycock!
___The word translated "pastor" in the New Testament refers to church leaders only in Ephesians 4:11. In Greek, "minister," "overseer" or "pastor" may include both male and female. Phoebe was both a minister and a church overseer (Romans 16:1-2). Words used to describe Phoebe as "overseer" are found in Romans 12:8, 1 Thessalonians 5:12, 1 Timothy 3:4-5 and 5:17 to refer to those who govern.
___The Greek text of 1 Timothy 3:1-7 makes it clear the office of overseer is open to anyone qualified regardless of gender.
___The statement that the overseer must be "the husband of one wife" disqualifies women no more than single males. Paul says when a male overseer is married, he must have just one wife. Otherwise, Paul would have to exclude himself and Timothy from ministry!
___Finally, a good number of scholars agree 1 Timothy 3:11 refers to women deacons, not deacons' wives. Romans 16:1 corroborates this. This point is significant when one considers that 1 Timothy 3:12 states that the deacons should be the husbands of one wife. So where is the scriptural qualification?
___ Cameron Rhoads
___ Fort Worth
Preaching sister
___In reviewing the Scriptures used by the Baptist Faith & Message committee to draft its proposed changes in the article on the church, I notice John 20:17 is not to be found. It was a woman, Mary Magdalene, whom Christ first instructed to preach the good news of his resurrection.
___As for the Apostle Paul's refusal to allow a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man (1 Timothy 2:12), I find it curious that Christ instructed Mary to preach the resurrection to "the brothers."
___Preach on, sister.
___ Mark L. Moeller
___ San Angelo
Local decision
___Changes in the article on the church in the proposed Baptist Faith & Message statement concern me a great deal.
___I am very concerned when I see churches allow themselves to be governed by an autocratic pastor or despotic board of elders. The congregational polity that has set us apart must be maintained.
___I pastor a local church that is strong and growing. We have a working committee system that gives all our members the ability to use their spiritual gifts to edify the local church and the kingdom of God.
___Although I personally agree with the committee that, "While both men and women are gifted for service in the church, the office of pastor (should be) limited to men," this must remain a local-church decision.
___I also agree with many who are distressed about the absence of a clear statement of mutual submission in the statement's article on the family. This controversial article is made non-scriptural by this omission.
___I pray we can find a way to correct these mistakes in Orlando before the revised Baptist Faith & Message is adopted. If not, my church will very likely exercise our right to autonomy and reject the changes.
___ Keith Buice
___ Irving
Cultural reality
___Thanks for the comment (June 5) on this issue of culture and faith as illustrated by the Baptist Faith & Message.
___Obviously, the Apostle Paul did not want the churches to shoot themselves in their collective feet by violating local mores and taboos, especially when they were not central to the gospel.
___Neither Paul nor Jesus understood their mission as being to straighten out social problems of their day. They did not take on slavery, oppression of women, tyrannical government or political radicalism.
___They had more important matters to attend. Working within an imperfect culture did not require, nor does it today, acceptance of that culture. It does require accommodation to its mindsets if we want to speak to be heard.
___In effect, the equality of women in our culture today is a cultural reality similar to the cultural realities of New Testament times.
___If we want the Christian message heard, we cannot be sidetracked by trying to apply 2000-year-old cultural models to today's world in the name of Christian absolutism. That is putting far too much importance on something that is not central to the message of salvation. Why alienate a large portion of the population by making something an issue of faith when it actually has little to do with leading one to a transformation of the spirit?
___Paul understood this trap and refused to allow social problems to sidetrack the church. We should be so wise.
___ Jim Fitch
___ Gallatin, Tenn.
Applaud mission board
___I applaud the North American Mission Board's decision to expand its policy on divorceto include chaplains (May 15). Certainly divorce is no worse of a sin than any other, as Chuck Schobert asked (May 22), but it is one of the sins which the Apostle Paul used to exclude certain people from service as leaders in the church.
___There isn't anything wrong with seeking out moral people for our leaders. Divorce is a serious problem, and Baptists need to set clear policies denouncing divorce as sin.
___It is easy to rationalize sin away when it hits too close to home. In Family Matters column, Steve Smith responds to a question from a separated woman (May 22). While all Christians are called to love as God loves us, we also are called to confront sin and encourage others with biblical guidance. Missing in Smith's response to this separated woman was encouragement to reconcile with her husband and "sin no more."
___Being available for people in need is great. God calls us to minister to those in need. We need to make sure, however, we don't cross the line with our support and encourage or enable people to continue in sin. Schobert and Smith would do well to remind themselves this is a sin God "hates."
___At least NAMB has the conviction to handle divorce biblically.
___Mack Johnson
___Mesquite
Calvinism opposed to Baptist doctrine?
___Regarding Ed Gibson's letter (June 5), someone please explain how Calvinism is "totally in opposition to our Southern Baptist faith and (is) dangerous."
___With regard to David Mills' letter (June 5), someone please define the term "hyper-
___It would serve us all well if the Baptist Standard would devote an article in an upcoming issue to the definitions needed to understand Calvinism and hyper-Calvinism and to explain how Calvinism is opposed to Southern Baptist doctrine.
___Mike McNamara
___Henderson
"Render unto Caesar..."
___I have heard sermons on every verse in the Bible pertaining to tithes and offerings. But I have never heard a sermon based on the mandate found in Mark 12:17 or Luke 20:25: "Render unto Caesar that which is his, and unto God that which is His." Why is this?
___How and why do God's people ignore this mandate? Pick out the biggest, the fanciest house of worship in the land. We throw out our chests and marvel at what our sacrificial gifts to God have done. Sacrificial? Think again.
___ How much of the money represented in this mammoth structure was taken from the government and given to God? Tax deductions. Perfectly legal according to man's law, but what about God's law?
___If Jesus had anticipated that one day we would have trained experts in the field of legalized tax evasion, he would have had large things to say about it.
___ I also believe God's law eventually will prevail. We are getting closer to a flat tax rate for everybody (no deductions) with each passing administration. And it will be devastating to all charitable institutions. But true Bible-believing Christians will pass the test.
___ Norman D. Gooch Sr.
___ Abilene
Texas Baptist Men has place for retirees
___ Mary Stephens was right: You can find meaning after retirement (May 29). This was her answer to some one who had recently retired, and after six months seemed to no longer
___ She offered a number of activities to give life meaning. Let me present another. Projects of Texas Baptist Men is one of the best-kept secrets we have.
___ I retired two years ago and spent that time looking for a place to be useful. I found it in Amarillo, almost under my nose. There are building projects across the state to help. "Building for the glory of God" is their motto. If a person has a craft, it can be put to use somewhere for the glory of God. A large building was just dedicated in Dallas--built by Texas Baptist Men, for disaster relief. Many encampments need workers to help construct facilities. One tremendous project is in Amarillo, where an abused women's/unwed mother shelter is being prepared.
___ Most of these work sites have RV spaces and provide some of the meals. Not a bad deal for someone who wants to be useful.
___ The pay is not much but the benefits are great!
___ Eugene Griffin
___ Stratford
Nominations were top-quality
___ I take exception to your article "SBC nominations favor new convention" (May 8).
___ I hope you don't really expect the Southern Baptist Convention to nominate Baptist General Convention of Texas-Cooperative Baptist Fellowship personnel to serve on its
___ I will ask you how many Southern Baptists of Texas Convention conservatives ever get appointed to the BGCT-CBF boards?
___ SBC-SBTC and CBF-BGCT in all reality parted ways long ago; let's move on to doing God's business.
___ All the SBTC nominees that you refer to are top-quality Christian servants. For instance, Paul Pressler's nomination to the Baptist World Alliance board could not be better. I have just finished reading his "A Hill on Which to Die," and I believe reading it would be beneficial to Baptists of all persuasions. They would get to know and understand the real Paul Pressler and not the one your paper and other liberal publications present.
___ Wade Knight
___ Georgetown
Burn more brightly
___ In Revelation, John saw seven golden candlesticks, which represents the churches, and standing in the middle of them was Jesus (Revelation 1:9-20).
___ There are 168 hours in each week. We sleep 56 hours. We work 40 –50 hours. That leaves 62-72 hours. Yet we have a hard time giving the Lord just four hours in unified worship.
___ The first church worshipped daily in the Temple, (Acts 2:46). Today's Church has difficulty getting together just three times a week. Yes! How does Jesus see our candlestick?
___ We must remember his warning to the church at Ephesus. If our churches do not do his work, we too could have our candlesticks removed from his presence. How many churches have already had this happen because they were disobedient?
___ If we could see Jesus with our eyes, we would be knocking down the church doors to get in. Yet he told us he would be in our midst, (Matthew 18:20).
___ Do you see Jesus standing in the midst of our candlesticks today? How does Jesus see your candlestick, (your church) today? How does he see you?
___ Alvie Stiefer
___ Garden City
Reynolds' accusation unfounded
___ Herbert Reynolds has been quoted as stating, "We must discontinue sending funds to the Southern Baptist Convention Executive Committee." The majority of those
___ Reynolds reminds me of many current SBC leaders who would not support our missionaries when they were not in control. Reynolds also warned of supporting missionaries "who have essentially embraced the credo of the fundamentalists and who will win others to Christ around the world under the banner of a dispensationalist-driven theocracy." After 20 years with the SBC International Mission Board, I can testify that Reynolds' statements are ridiculous. Our only credo is the Bible. Our only banner is the kingdom of God. Accusing our missionaries of supporting a dispensationalist-driven theocracy is absurd.
___ Reynolds reminds me of Ron Wilson, a neo-conservative resurgence leader and former IMB trustee, who described our SBC missionaries as neo-orthodox liberals who have been exporting heresy for over a generation. When I challenged him to publicly prove his charges, he couldn't.
___ Reynolds and this trustee and their respective political organizations have more in common than different. Both are willing to slander our missionaries and others if it is to their political advantage.
___ Our current missionaries are just as committed and worthy of support as those I served with in the '70s. It is also true that the missionaries I served with in the '70s were just as conservative theologically as those serving today.
___ Ron West
___ Taichung, Taiwan
The Bible tells me so
___ I disagree with Daniel Vestal. God does not change, nor does he tell us to change with the times. If God does, why don't we allow homosexuals to preach and call their sinful behavior normal? Isn't that being tolerant in this "enlightened" age?
___ A minister is supposed to meet certain requirements. Can a woman be the "husband"
___ In our standing in Christ, we are all the same. Yet in responsibility, we have different jobs according to God's holy word. If the "Spirit" supposedly calls women to be preachers, who's spirit is it? The Holy Spirit will not contradict God's holy word, because God does not contradict himself, and the Holy Spirit only repeats what he has heard (John 16:13).
___ The Bereans were nobler because they searched the Scriptures to see if Paul was truthful. Why is it now not correct to accept the Bible as it stands? Maybe when men get done changing God's holy word to match what the world expects, women preachers will be supported by its changed teachings. But then it won't be God's holy word.
___ I'll stick with my Bible that I know God has blessed and preserved. I know I stand on the rock and will not be moved, even though the whole world condemns me. Why? Because the Bible tells me so.
___ Ralph E. Zecco
___ Socorro, N.M.
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