July 17, 2000
Texas Baptist Forum
Reunion praises
___After enjoying a great week at Glorieta two summers ago, I didn't think the Texas Baptist Family Reunion could get any better. I was wrong!
___This year's Fourth of July picnic by the lake was a wonderful addition. The highlight for me, though, wasn't the planned activities or delicious barbeque; it was the attitude of the people who prepared and served the food.
___A little before midnight on the previous day, a small group of men and women fromFirst Baptist Church of Plains started cooking the meat that was provided by the BGCT. After serving 1,400 people, they spent another six hours cleaning up. All I did was show up, eat delicious food and enjoy great fellowship.
E-mail the editor at marvknox@baptiststandard.com
___When I overheard a member of the BGCT staff thanking one of the volunteers, his only response was, "We just appreciate you asking us to help."
___That servant attitude--as I saw it modeled by the team from Plains--was typical of the entire week. It is just one more reason I am grateful to be a Christian and a Texas Baptist.
___ Bob Webb
___ Denver City
Baptist Press 'lies'
___I cannot express strongly enough my revulsion at the latest releases coming out of Baptist Press. What was once an unbiased and accurate source of news concerning Baptists has degenerated into a source of propaganda and outright lying.
___A case in point is the recent article on what some Texans said at the Southern Baptist Convention concerning the authority of the Bible. In the article, Anthony Sisemore is quoted as saying, "The Bible is just a book," leaving the impression that those disagreeing with the SBC leadership did not believe in the divine authority of Scriptures.
___I checked and found out what was said. Sisemore prefaced his remarks by stating his belief in the Bible. He stated, "The Bible is divinely inspired and important, but it is still just a book."
___Baptist Press deliberately left this information out in order to impugn and defame the reputation of Sisemore.
___ Steve Watkins
___ Arlington
Won't print this?
___This is a letter I do not expect Mark Wingfield will print. It could not have been any greater insult had Chuck Colson slapped me in the face, as it was when I read your article in the Baptist Standard where Colson was "ragging" Charles Stanley. It is just as shocking that the Baptist Standard would stoop so low as to even print such trash.
___Where is Christian love? Christian compassion? A Christian brother lifting up a Christian brother? All I could see in the article from Colson's nationwide radio broadcast was stones flying. Where is Christian empathy? Only by the grace of God can we ourselves stand.
___I have never heard such harsh and degrading words. Colson really scraped the bottom of the barrel to find such degrading and insulting words and comparisons.
___There is no such thing as divorce without consequences. Some will see to that. We should let First Baptist Church of Atlanta rebuke and restore Stanley in the way of biblical teachings and Christian love. This should not and cannot be done in the newspaper or on nationwide radio, and it should never be allowed to be used as a "power" play.
___Not only has one great man fallen; now there are two. I believe the smear tactic has done more damage to the Baptist name and to the faith of ministers and laypersons alike. When trash like this is published, how can we expect to get the lost into our churches?
___If I want to read trash, I will purchase the Enquirer, not the Baptist Standard.
___ Linda G. Hass
___ Alba
Stanley 'upright'
___While Chuck Colson was training for wheeler-dealer politician and criminal, Charles Stanley was brought up by a Christian mother, was saved at age 12 and always lived an upright life.
___In 1983, my husband and I were privileged to travel to the Holy Land with Charles and Anna Stanley. I believe this was her last trip there with him. She was supportive, and they appeared happy; no outsider would have known trouble was brewing.
___Christians know divorce is not God's plan, but if a mate chooses to leave or turns into an abuser, it is sometimes necessary. Scripture says it causes a mate to commit adultery, but if one stays single and celibate there is no adultery. Baptist churches in this little town and all over the world have seen deacons as well as some pastors commit adultery and do not oust the deacons. The towns see marriages stay together because a wife enables by ignoring adultery or other mistreatment. This is hypocrisy, but at least it isn't divorce.
___I cannot see how you could bear to print the name of a godly man in the same paragraph with filthy, degraded, morally bankrupt, sleazy Clinton! It was infuriating to have the two compared in any way. And with pedophiles!
___If Stanley is drummed out of his church, it will be a far bigger sin and a bigger loss than any no-fault divorce. I withdrew from my church several years ago because of years of its persecution of pastors (not your denomination). This kind of piousity makes me glad I didn't then join yours. I'd have been accepted, as I was baptized in the Jordan River by Stanley.
___ Gwen Arnold
___ Pearsall
Leisurely worship
___I enjoyed reading about Fellowship Church's creative zeal toward ministries (June 12). I'm concerned, however, about a trend of a too-leisurely approach to worship and toward God himself.
___Os Guinness said: "The problem is not that we have churches near malls; the problem is too much mall inside the church." That hits home. At the same time churches acquiesce to the culture around them, members are forgetting who we worship. Instead of fear and reverence, we're entering God's presence with Krispy Kreme doughnuts and gourmet coffee.
___Is it relevant to omit "Baptist" from our titles, despite no other denomination doing so? Is it relevant for Prestonwood to build a colossal building but not display a cross anywhere on it? We're losing our hymns, crosses and "Baptist" titles, all in fear of being detrimental to someone. We have bookstores and Starbucks in foyers and people leaving the sanctuary during invitations. It's time for another temple cleansing.
___I thank the Lord for traditional churches and pastors. My pastor is creative despite not having preached atop a Mercedes. We cannot so quickly sacrifice the paths that thousands of pastors and church programs blazed before us. Jonathan Edwards never spoke on "Coping with Success," and yet the Great Awakening occurred. All without a direct-marketing campaign or juice bars.
___Unbelievers haven't changed. It's just that our reverence toward God has been diluted. Too much sugar. It's time to return to the meat and salt.
___ David Sparks
___ Lewisville
Polanyi politics
___The Michael Polanyi Center at Baylor is doing something the Baylor science department apparently never bothered to do or thought was important.
___The Nature of Nature Conference in April brought together outstanding scientists and academics from multiple disciplines and with conflicting worldviews. They engaged in civilized and intellectually challenging discourse about the scientific evidence for a worldview that has major implications for Christians.
___If Baylor scientists are unwilling to broach the topic for fear of losing their credibility with other secular scientists, they should not let their own hurt feelings or conflicts with their president keep others from engaging in the discussion.
___The academics who called for the dissolution of the center are being just as closed-minded as some "pseudo-scientific creationists" are accused of being. And this from Christians (I suppose) and people who pride themselves on their openness to inquiry?
___ Melissa Beck
___ Katy
Carter still good
___Regarding Jerry Falwell's lowly reference to Jimmy Carter: Carter was a God-fearing man, and so godly the United States of America could not stand to have such a wonderful human being as their president. He is still doing good for many people. In history, he will be called a great leader.
___ Mrs. Floyd R. Jones
___ Lueders
Court not wise
___I fail to see your reasoning that the Supreme Court handed down a wise decision regarding prayer at public school football games (June 26).
___I was always taught as a youth that our country was a country of freedom, a country founded on sound Christian principles by sound Christian men. The very laws of our land were taken from the Bible, a government of the people, for the people and by the people.
___And now you say it was wise for nine Supreme Court justices who are known for making ungodly decisions to impose upon people. Only six of them believe they should do this, and I doubt very seriously if those six justices know Jesus as their personal Savior. And you think it wise for those six ungodly decision makers to tell 82 percent of the people what to do and what they cannot do?
___You state that idol worshippers and non-Christians are forced to violate their conscience. My, my, if our forefathers were alive today, they would still be standing up for what they died for. For preaching Jesus and standing up against all idol worship of non-believers, trying to carry the message of Jesus to the very ones that killed them.
___We should obey God rather than man. I am going to pray that God will open your eyes.
___ John Eakin
___ Houston
'In God We Trust'
___The recent U.S. Supreme Court ruling (Santa Fe vs. Doe) by a 6-3 vote effectively created a law against student and teacher use of the public address system to broadcast a prayer that asks the Creator God to bless the evening activities at ball games.
___Chief Justice William Rehnquist filed a dissenting opinion that said the majority opinion "bristles with hostility to all things religious in public life."
___The Supreme Court's ruling is unconstitutional because it prohibits the free exercise of religion.
___The men who wrote the Constitution meant for this to be a Christian nation that honored God from the schoolhouse to the White House. As long as the teachers in public schools and the parents of students who attend those schools continue to pay taxes, they should have access to the facilities and equipment in those public schools.
___The Freedom of Access laws passed a few years ago supposedly guaranteed citizens the right to use public facilities. There should be no problem with Christians using public facilities, especially since on our money it says "In God We Trust," and we pledge allegiance to "one nation under God."
___I praise God for the three Supreme Court Justices (Rehnquist, Thomas and Scalia) who boldly stood for what was right just like Daniel, Shadrach, Meshach, Abednego, Peter and Philip would have done. They had much more wisdom than those who supported the view that the ruling was appropriate.
___ Rusty Bertrand
___ Winnie
Christian nation
___What many seem to have forgotten is that the United States was settled and founded by Christians. Just as Saudi Arabia is a Muslim nation, Japan is a Buddhist nation and Israel is a Jewish nation, the United States is (or at least was) a Christian nation.
___The First Amendment to the Constitution disallows the government from respecting an "establishment of religion." We sometimes refer to this as "separation of church and state." But our Christian forefathers never intended those words to prevent the government from making any reference to God.
___We should never construe the First Amendment to require the government to be atheist--a "separation of God and state." Instead, the intention was, and is, simply that government should not give prejudicial treatment to any organized religion. The U.S. was to be a Christian nation, not respecting any particular denomination, but allowing the freedom for citizens to practice any religion, even non-Christian ones.
___The Declaration of Independence reads, "that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights." The Star-Spangled Banner reads "Praise the Pow'r that hath made and preserv'd us a nation." Our currency says, "In God We Trust." Does this not offend the Satanist, the Atheist, the Evolutionist, the Buddhist? Should we, therefore, alter all government texts, songs and currency, so as not to offend these groups of people, and thereby deny our God? Never! Instead, we must acknowledge him and pray to him as a people and a nation.
___ Ken Schweers
___ Garland
No creed fine
___Read no further than the third paragraph of "Together" by Charles Wade in the June 19 issue of the Baptist Standard. It states in part that Southern Baptists have lived longer without a confession of faith than they have with one.
___I just wonder: If we got along for 80 years without a creed, why do we need one now?
___ Bob Mitchell
___ Waco
What about Mary?
___The more I ruminate over the recent vote in our Southern Baptist Convention at Orlando prohibiting a woman from serving in the pulpit, the more puzzled I become.
___God elected two women to be the first to learn of the risen Christ on resurrection morning and delegated them to go take the good news to the disciples.
___I am inclined to believe it is not God who is directing the current leadership of the convention, but just plain male ego. Paul, incidentally, does not say in his letter to Timothy, "Now, Timothy, you understand that God has directed me to write you and give you these specific instructions." Rather, he says quite plainly, "I Paul," bachelor steeped in Greek culture who wouldn't think of letting a woman take a leadership role. It is simply unheard of.
___There is an old cliche: "We don't see things as they are but see things as we are." I suggest I can see how some of our convention leaders see the position of a woman. If they had been at the Garden tomb on resurrection morning, no doubt they would have said, "Now, ladies, you stay right here until we can get some of the male followers here to take this startling information to the disciples."
___As Charlie Brown would say, "Good grief!"
___ Loyce T. Gary
___ Irving
Jesus endures
___I agree with Jess Moody that if we center on the Bible rather than Christ we will "miss the boat" so to speak.
___What, may I ask, do the members of the Southern Baptist Convention say regarding Luke 21-33 and Mark 13-31? Is not the Bible (written word) going to pass away with the earth but Jesus' words will not pass away? The Bible points us to Jesus, not the other way around.
___I have been working with the sick and dying for quite some time and have seen the working of Jesus Christ in people's lives who knew little or nothing of the Bible. Their lives changed before they knew anything about the Bible.
___ Dwight Baker
___ Texas City
Women may preach
___Regarding the Baptist Faith & Message and allowing women to serve as pastors:
___(1) It is up to the local church to select and call the person to pastor the church as determined by the vote of the membership.
___(2) As to whether or not it is scriptural for a woman to be the pastor of the church, I submit the following Scriptures:
___"And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams; and on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy" (Acts 2:17-18).
___
___As I understand the Scriptures, the pastors are to receive their messages from the Lord and thus to have the "gift of prophecy." The gift of prophecy (1 Corinthians 12:10b) is to speak out concerning divine things. The emphasis is on powerful preaching or telling forth God's word under the power of the Holy Spirit.
___It is clear from the Scriptures in Acts that women, as well as men, had the gift of prophecy during New Testament days.
___ Velma M. Dickerman
___ Wichita Falls
If you don't like it ...
___I believe with Charles Wade that we do not need anything but the Bible for our creed. However, when other churches with SBC on them do not uphold what we as a group believe, maybe it is time to define what the Bible tells us as a group. That would be a confession of faith.
___As quoted from Leon McBeth, "The basic purpose of confessions of faith throughout the years has been to say: 'Here we are. We are Baptists. This is what we believe.'" He also said, "A creed tells you what you must believe, and a confession affirms what you do believe."
___If gays and lesbians do not like that the Bible says that lifestyle is a sin, so be it. If women do not like the fact the Bible says a pastor or deacon is to be the husband of one wife, so be it.
___You are right, each Baptist church has the right to do what they want in their church. The question is, do you want them to carry the same name as you?
___It is time we define what we as Baptists believe. If others do not believe the same, maybe it is time to take SBC off their church.
___ Richard Allen
___ Wichita Falls
Godhead usurped
___Southern Baptists committed a grievous sin when we adopted certain words and phrases in the latest Baptist Faith & Message.
___In one place, this document asserts itself to be suitable as an "instrument of doctrinal accountability." This usurps the position of God the Father and directly contradicts the Bible, which says we are accountable to God, not man, for doctrines, beliefs and actions (Acts 5:29).
___In another place, the document asserts the Bible is "God's revelation of himself to man" and that Christ is the "focus of divine revelation." These assertions usurp the position of Christ and contradict the Bible, which says Jesus Christ is God's revelation of himself to man and the author of divine revelation (John 14:9, Rev. 1:1).
___In a third place, the document asserts it contains the "essentials" of our faith. As such it elevates itself to a position higher than the Bible because it claims to identify those parts of the Bible that are most important and attempts to clarify our understanding of what the Bible really means. This usurps the position of the Holy Spirit and contradicts the Bible, which says the Holy Spirit is the one who teaches us all things and gives us spiritual understanding (John 14:26).
___Together, these three assertions attack the complete Godhead. We are guilty, intentionally or not, of the same sin committed by Satan--attempting to usurp the position of God Almighty. This is no trivial sin, and its consequences will not be gentle (Galatians 8:1, Mark 3:28-29, Revelation 22:18-19).
___ Donnell Hewett
___ Kingsville
Garbage
___ It is hard for me to understand why anybody would take Chuck Colson's remarks about Charles Stanley seriously enough to publish them in a Christian newspaper. Give Baptists the name of "judgmental." Chuck Colson of all people should not be judging otherpeople, given his own history.
___ Do we as Christians not serve a forgiving God? And isn't it our responsibility to accept others' repentance without question? Did not even Jesus call Peter "the rock," and he betrayed Jesus three times? Did not God say that David was "a man after his own heart," and he committed adultery and had a man murdered? Is Colson saying he is the only person who can be forgiven?
___ Was it not Stanley's wife who left him? How do we make a mate stay with us when they want to leave? Did they not struggle with this for seven years?
___ Has anybody said that Charles Stanley was guilty of marital infidelity? Colson says Stanley "needs first a time for personal repentance and healing." Repentance from what?
___ Please, please do not insult the rest of us by publishing such garbage!
___ Patsy Attaway
___ Dallas
Falwell and Carter
___ Regarding the article, "Falwell Urges Baptists to Defeat Gore" (June 19): How in this world could Jerry Falwell have dared make such an insulting remark about Jimmy Carter,
___ He spoke of Christians in 1979 and 1980, having said, speaking of Jimmy Carter's presidency: "Christians by the millions said, 'We've had enough,' and threw Jimmy Carter out and put Ronald Reagan in."
___ Falwell can say nothing that will affect Carter's testimony and witness, but his making such a statement certainly speaks loud and clear about Falwell in a number of ways
___ Jack & Velma Dickerman
___ Wichita Falls
There I go again....
___ One question: If the new leadership of the Southern Baptists is determined to lead us all down the Calvinist road, shouldn't they also teach celibacy? It would be better to have no children at all than to have children who may be born with no future other than eternal
___ As the father of four sons, I am comforted by the biblical fact that they all have an equal opportunity to receive God's promised eternal life. But there I go again, interpreting the Bible with only the Holy Spirit to guide me like I was some kind of priest or something.
___ Sandy Dozier
___ Pleasanton
Carter has moral integrity
___ To put it bluntly, Jerry Falwell's comments about former President Jimmy Carter being thrown out by "religious conservatives" is untrue, blatantly political and denigrating of a Christian brother. Of all the presidents during my lifetime (65 years), Carter is the only
___ It may be true that "political conservatives" helped throw Carter out, but I resent the suggestion that "Christian conservatives" had any part in it. If Falwell will place the teaching of Holy Scripture above the Conservative Creed, he will show more appreciation and support for the Christian witness of Carter, which has continued from before his presidency down to this very day.
___ Shame, Mr. Falwell! What Christian brother next?
___ Orlynn Evans
___ Nacogdoches
Appalled at view of women as pastors
___ I am 18 and a member of Columbus Avenue Baptist Church in Waco. As I heard about the decision that was recently made by the Southern Baptist Convention, I was actually rather appalled to think that a group of Christians would say women should not be
___ Being a fellow Christian and independent female, I am confused as to how someone can believe in the Bible and then go against what it says and act hypocritically against women.
___ "For as woman came from man, so also man is born of woman. But everything comes from God" (1 Corinthians 11:11-12). "There are different kinds of gifts, but the same Spirit. There are different kinds of service, but the same Lord … the same God works all of them in all men" (1 Corinthians 12:4-6).
___ Everyone's gifts come from God, and it is a sin to ignore the gifts God has blessed you with. And someone depriving me of a chance to share the gospel makes me feel very hurt and unappreciated as a woman.
___ God calls us all to be witnesses for him. And who's to say that a woman does not have just the right message to say to save one soul? The Bible says there will be rejoicing in heaven for just one soul.
___ The message of God is the same, no matter if man, woman or child delivers it. Has this one decision taken away the true focus of our lives, Jesus Christ?
___ Pam Graves
___ Waco
Thank God for Parks
___"All it takes for evil to prevail is for good people to do nothing."
___ The first time I saw these words, they referred to the Nazi takeover over of Germany in the 1930s by Adolf Hitler and his thugs. The famous phrase was recently quoted by Keith Parks in an article in the July issue of Baptists Today. Parks is one of the best-known
___ Parks made his remarks in reference to the fundamentalist takeover of the SBC. Parks stated, "This whole takeover was based on deceit, on lying, on cheating." He stated that in 1990 when the SBC met in New Orleans, they celebrated the achievement. "They sat there and bragged about the fact that they had lied and cheated and deceived," Parks said.
___ And who were these people who did this? Parks mentioned two by name--Jerry Falwell and Adrian Rogers. But, of course, there are several others, including Paige Patterson and Paul Pressler.
___ Who were the good people who did nothing? "The people called Baptists didn't even blink," he said. "They said, 'We'll follow these guys who acted unbiblically.'"
___ Thank God for people such as Parks who display courage and integrity despite the cost.
___ Carl L. Hess
___ Ozark, Ala.
Past court decisions could shed light
___ The June 26 editorial by Marv Knox titled "Decision unpopular, appropriate," referred to the recent Supreme Court case of prayer at football games, Santa Fe Independent School District vs. Doe. I was surprised at the statements made to justify the 6-3 Supreme Court
___ What bothered me even more was Knox's rationale in saying the decision was "wise." His primus is wrong and without justification for the following reasons:
___ (1) There is no "constitutional" basis whatsoever for the Supreme Court's thinking. The First Amendment nowhere prohibits the free exercise of religion; it only prohibits an "establishment" by the government of a particular belief system.
___ (2) Knox and the court somehow expand their limited understanding to believe that voluntary, student-led prayer before a football game violates the Establishment Clause. Knox needs to understand the court's blatant "anti-Christian" decisions are not a result of sudden lawlessness or discovery of hyper-Christianity, but a steady, ruthless objective, which started back in the 1947 case of Everson vs. Board of Education, where a long list of anti-Christian items were incorporated but not then enforced.
___ Now fast–forward to 1962, Engle vs. Vitale, where prayers were held to violate the Establishment Clause. Refer to the 1970 case of Walz vs. Tax Commission. The court took the Fourteenth Amendment and applied it to the First Amendment against the states.
___ Don McDaniel
___ Golden
More time on knees, less on soapbox
___ Excuse me! Mr. Graves of Iredell: "Funny how 'people' can twist the Scriptures!?"
___ Mary Joe Nixon
___ Livingston
Colson argument is surreal
___ Some conservative evangelical Christians believe the function of divorced believers is to go to church and shut up. It's a minority position, but it's out there, and it looks as if
___ Stanley doesn't want to step down as pastor of Atlanta's First Baptist Church, apparently the congregation doesn't want him to step down, and I don't think the Bible says one way or the other.
___ There's no question divorce is bad news, but it's pretty surreal for a convicted felon to be lecturing a Southern Baptist pastor on how he ought to behave.
___ R.E. Ramcharan
___ Topeka, Kansas
SBC has no business promoting Falwell's agenda
___ In an online Baptist Forum letter, Roy Roberts said he doesn't "think Jerry Falwell has any business urging Baptist voters to vote for certain candidates." Falwell's political efforts
___ Were it not for the controversy surrounding the revisions to the Baptist Faith & Message, the big story out of the 2000 SBC would have been an article about Falwell's efforts to keep Al Gore from being elected president. The article is based on an interview with Falwell conducted at the site of the SBC at a booth of an SBC commission by the president of that SBC commission. Yes, there is a disclaimer that says that Falwell's comments are "personal." However this does not change the fact that Falwell's political crusade is now being advertised through the SBC.
___ To paraphrase Roberts, I don't think the SBC has any business promoting Falwell's partisan political agenda.
___ David Stratton
___ Supply, N.C.
Lead others to Christ
___ We argue over interpretation of Scripture but ignore the primary command given to the disciples. We gather Sundays and teach our people, then ignore the rest of the world
___ I have read Matthew 28:19,20 in three English, three Spanish versions and Luther's German. The verses in any language give the primary purpose of any believer in Christ--Go and make disciples of all nations. We need to major in the command Christ gave his disciples.
___ I recall a statement in one book where the author said, "There is no greater pleasure for the believer than to be associated with the Lord in leading others to a saving faith in Jesus Christ."
___ Julian H. Unger
___ Houston
Study the original Greek of troublesome passages
___ The discussion at the Southern Baptist Convention during the presentation of the revised version of the Baptist Faith & Message reveals clearly that the persons who presented it to the convention look at the Bible and not Jesus as being the source of the
___ This position requires us to determine which Bible contains this revelation. With regard to the New Testament, would it not be the Greek text that the Holy Spirit inspired? All English translations resulted from human decisions, which may or may not at any given point accurately record the message of the Greek text.
___ The traditional translation of the verses containing God's will about human authority and the relationships between husbands and wives, church members and pastors, and citizens and civil authorities was established by scholars committed to the doctrines and practices of the Church of England's authoritarian concepts. A careful comparison of their wording with the Greek text of those verses shows them to be inaccurate.
___ You cannot read Greek? Anyone can use Strong's Bible concordance to compare the Greek words and their meanings with the words the translators chose. Instructions on how to use this Bible study aid and as well the evidence about the verses involved in the issues about personal relations can be downloaded from http://www.geocities.com/~retreaded or by sending a large self-addressed stamped (.55) envelope to Russell Ware Ministries, PMB 222, 624 West University Dr., Denton 76201-1889.
___ Russell Ware
___ Denton
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