June 4, 2001
TEXAS BAPTIST FORUM:
Church discipline
___"Ill-behaving members lead to clergy burnout" (April 23) raises questions about one of the most severe issues facing our churches today.
___Just as our society is filled with dysfunctional and difficult people, so our churches increasingly are plagued with members who cause havoc and division in their churches.
E-mail the editor at marvknox@baptiststandard.com
___These people can run loose disrupting the entire fellowship, and nothing is done to curb their behavior. Many of these people do not even realize they are problems, always blaming other members and church staff for various problems.
___It is no wonder good pastors are resigning their churches and leaving the ministry.
___I read that fewer and fewer children of ministers are entering the ministry. With all the difficult and tragic experiences pastors and staff members are encountering, why would any knowledgeable person want to subject themselves to such a dangerous environment as the Baptist church is today?
___The only discipline practiced today is against pastors and staff. They are put out of the church regularly with no concern by the church. Hurt and disillusioned men and women and their children litter the landscape of Baptist life, and nobody seems to care.
___How long has it been since any serious attempt was made to discipline church members who create all kinds of trouble?
___ Ken Crider
___ Gainesville
Texas pride
___I feel foolish, embarrassed and small. It's all because I am a Texas Baptist!
___It used to irritate me when non-Texans called us obnoxious because of our Texas pride. Now, because of the Baptist General Convention of Texas, I agree with them.
___We would please God more if we spent more time on our knees in repentance and less time patting ourselves on the back for our "good works."
___We do not gain significance in God's kingdom because of how much money we give to missions or our positions on boards or status in our national convention. We don't "deserve" places of honor or leadership for any great deeds we've done.
___The message we are sending is that we are better than other states because we are bigger and do more for God. We should do more! If there is anything good in Texas, we should believe better things of other states; this will keep us humble. "We are unworthy servants; we have only done the work we should do" (Luke 17:10).
___My heart is grieved each week when I read the Standard. A headline says it all: "Bless the children, and pray for lost souls in Texas" (May 21).
___"The humble are always at peace; the proud are often envious and angry." (Thomas a' Kempis) There is too much envy and anger in Texas--what a waste!
___ Artie Magee
___ Bowie
Independent option
___The similarities in national and Baptist politics are hard to ignore. A recent New York Times op-ed titled "The Mean Spirit Backfires" refers to Republican Sen. Jim Jeffords' switch to become Independent: "He didn't leave the Republican Party. He was chased away by the close-minded, mean-spirited figures who control the party and are damaging it badly."
___How many informed Baptists share similar feelings about the Southern Baptist Convention figures who planned the self-described "takeover" and now control the SBC's ultraconservative agenda?
___This article goes on: "The Bush White House and others humiliated Sen. Jeffords. They wanted his vote, but they didn't want anything else to do with him."
___How many Texas Baptists feel similarly about an SBC that solicits Cooperative Program gifts from Texans but wants nothing else to do with the BGCT or with any other Baptist who disagrees with their ultraconservative views?
___Like Sen. Jeffords, many Baptists are uncomfortable with ultraconservative positions taken by SBC leadership, especially when accompanied by the "my way or the highway" attitude.
___"Tolerance of dissent is the hallmark of a mature party, and it is well past time for the Republican Party to grow up," admonished Sen. John McCain of Arizona.
___Let us pray that our SBC leaders will show similar maturity with dissenting Baptists. If they do not, Baptists--individuals, churches and state conventions alike--may appropriately decide that becoming "Independent" of the SBC is their best, and perhaps only, option.
___ Dan Malone
___ El Paso
Hardened heart
___Dave Stratton argues we shouldn't put to death monsters like Timothy McVeigh because he could eventually be saved (May 21).
___McVeigh has had years to hear the gospel. He has heard it while in prison. Salvation is a choice. He has to make that choice. Instead, this man has rejected the Lord. He has hardened his heart. Many others on death row have found salvation. It is not the amount of time that they were given; it is simply that they heard and believed.
___Yes, the power of God can transform the McVeighs of this world. But they have to accept that gift that is so freely given. It cannot be drummed into them; they cannot be forced to accept it.
___Even while literally facing death, many still will not repent, no matter how many times they have heard the Truth.
___ Forestine Turner
___ Alvin
Outward exhibit
___In reply to the writer who was upset by church applause in response to baptisms (May 21): I don't know about your fellow church members, but I rejoice greatly to see the outward exhibition of a soul who has accepted Christ.
___In Luke 15, Christ described the joy in heaven and the joy of the angels over one sinner who repents. Baptism never fails to call forth my tears of joy for the one who is beginning the new life. I cannot fail to express my joy, along with those in heaven, whether it be clapping or a resounding "Amen."
___I am 64 and still remember my own baptism 34 years ago like it was yesterday.
___ Joyce Young
___ Amarillo
Different response
___We approve "Behave in church" (May 21).
___It is very difficult for us to adjust to the amount of entertainment that is being injected into our worship services.
___No, we are not sticks-in-the-mud. We enjoy good entertainment and respond with our hands and are vocal in our appreciation. During many years in the New York area, we enjoyed Broadway productions and programs at Radio City Music Hall.
___But when we see a friend or a new convert follow the Lord in baptism, we do not have the same response as we do when we see the Dallas Cowboys score a touchdown.
___ Bill & Opal Howard
___ Austin
New insights
___I was delighted to learn that Baylor University has invited Janet Reno to Waco, for the wounds from the Branch Davidian experience remain with this city.
___I applaud Baylor for giving us the opportunity to hear the former attorney general and commend her for agreeing to accept this invitation.
___Regardless of our different viewpoints, we in Waco need to hear Reno, and I am grateful for this occasion to gain additional understanding of her perspective.
___ Lu Treadwell
___ Waco
Outrageous words
___Charles Wade's statements of outrage and "we will not let lies go unchallenged" (May 28) contradict the teachings of the Bible.
___Jesus said we would not receive good press and in fact would be hated.
___ I would like to see Wade and the other combatants take their concerns to the Lord in humble prayer and not the press.
___ Jack Milton
___ Jacksboro
Ignoble thing
___I read the letter "Not surprising" (May 7), and what an ignoble thing it was.
___What a shame that a former editor of the Standard feels he has to resort to such un-Christian-like statements.
___I thought we were done with Toby Druin's biased expressions when the current editor took his place, but the "opinion" page still is being polluted with his insults.
___Is it a fact that one requirement for the editor's job is to have an obsession for trashing the SBC?
___ Ross Reding
___ Denton
WWJD trivialized
___I do not care for your trivialization of "What Would Jesus Do?" (May 21).
___While Jabez placed his trust in God and was blessed, he comes nowhere near our Lord and what he gave for my (or your) salvation. WWJD is an attempt to get people to pattern ourselves after Jesus, not Jabez.
___The main difference between Jesus and Jabez is Jabez asked and received, and Jesus gave us our salvation and only asks that we accept it.
___An apology is in order.
___ John Bull
___ Houston
Gain knowledge
___My heart fell as I read about the infiltration of the prayer of Jabez into many of our Baptist fellowships (May 21).
___Have we as a people sunk so low in our understanding of the word that we can shut our eyes to the premise that the daily verbatim reciting of any prayer is anything but a vain repetition that our Lord warns us of? What's next, the Rosary?
___Ted Elmore's take saddened me: "There's such a hunger in the hearts of people for the reality of God. They're tired of religion. They're hungry for God." Let me get this straight. People are tired of religion and want a real relationship with God, so the answer is to repeat verbatim the same prayer to him day after day? OK, kids, try that approach with your dad and get back with me about day 10.
___The premise behind the prayer of Jabez (you can get more from God if you just say the right words) is flawed at its core, and whenever any technique is proposed as a way to receive from God, it usurps the role of the Holy Spirit, replaces a living relationship with a mechanical one and opens the door wide to further deceptions.
___It's obvious we need to pray "Lord, increase my knowledge," not my borders.
___ John Hughes
___ Houston
Pain free can be bad
___When I first became a Christian at 17, I was fascinated by the prayer of Jabez (May 21) because it spoke to me in a very personal way.
___Here was a man who had experienced pain, was named Pain, and who didn’t want pain as part of his future. I too felt like Jabez and wanted a "pain free" life.
___The passages concering the prayer of Jabez are so few that one might miss them altogether when reading the stories of the lives of those who fill the pages of our Bible.
___Pain is not always negative. Sometimes pain can be very good. It helps us mature and grow and sometimes even wakes us up.
___Jabez prayed for a life free of pain, and that is all that we hear about his life. He is not mentioned again. Maybe through this prayer, Jabez missed out. The Bible is filled with stories of the lives of those who did not pray for a pain-free life, and we have benefited from reading about their lives, pain and all.
___I will cling to Hebrews 12:11, which states, "Now for the time being, no discipline seems pleasant; it is painful; later on, however, to those who are trained by it, it yields the fruit of peace which grows from upright character.
___Dora Corley
___Kingsville
Little gold mine
___Articles concerning "The Prayer of Jabez" and its "breakaway" popularity (May 21) were interesting because some of the concerns expressed are valid, and as usual, some go way too far.
___Yet I was saddened to realize the many testimonials about Jabez’s prayer would be used to distort the message through mass-marketing practices, and a host of Christians would support that by purchasing all manner of accessories associated with it.
___As always, when a Christian writer or artist presents something God-given that has wide appeal, the "industry" cannot resist exploiting it.
___The theology of the book is sound but not unique. Johnny White hit the nail on the head when he pointed to the short attention span of people today and the need for "short, brief, concise, easy-to-put-a-handle-on messages." So somebody stumbled into a little gold mine.
___Lord, help us!
___Bee Klingemann
___Austin
Baptism is key, not reactions
___In regard to the letter from someone who didn't want to leave their name (May 21), I must say I'm sorry. Sorry you don't get excited when someone publicly follows our Lord into the waters of baptism.
___So, I have to wonder about the writer of the letter. I'm sorry he’s 35 going on 70 and hasn't learned to enjoy the fact that another has surrendered his life to the Lord. I am 36 going on 37, and I love to see someone get baptized. I love to hear someone confess Jesus is Lord of their lives, and the joy that fills my heart sometimes spills out in the form of applause, sometimes an amen, sometimes tears.
___In either case, I pray that one day, the letter writer will find it in his heart to express the joy of watching someone be baptized who has been saved by grace, instead of being more concerned about the behavior of others.
___Mark A. Owens
___Bonham
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