Your editorial on torture (May 18) was sincere and thought-provoking. But by the end, I could not help thinking if Obama’s or Knox’s or Whitmore’s wife and children were threatened with extinction when it was likely the terrorist had information needed to stop an attack threatening them, none of you would sit around thinking: “Dead family or temporarily pained terrorist—which will I pick?”

If evangelicals and liberals were sincere about ending torture, then late-term abortionists would be in prison, sex slavery practically nonexistent and natural childbirth banned due to possible fatal complications.

I asked my college daughter who is majoring in political science/international affairs which would be worse for a Muslim terrorist—waterboarding or being forced to attend a gay-pride party at a U.S. embassy. In all sincerity, she said probably the party would be much more revolting to the terrorist and also a great recruiting tool for Islamists.

Jean Whitmore

Kessler Air Force Base, Miss.

I am confused. The recent survey that reports the support of torture by conservative evangelicals makes me question whether WWJD means “What Would Jesus Do?” or if it actually means “What Would Jack (Bauer) Do?”

I cannot find any New Testament author advocating following Jack Bauer (hero of the television program 24) rather than Jesus. I’ve studied early church history, and it is not until the fourth century that I find a world ruler, Constantine, calling upon the name of Christ to vanquish an enemy. Up to that point, Christians embraced the principle of overcoming evil with good. If Constantine was a Christian, was he killing pagans for Christ? I thought it was the Quran that calls for believers to convert pagans at the point of the sword.

Voices of the Martyrs regularly reports on Christians being persecuted for their faith, even unto death. But they never report on any Christians being the persecutors in order to preserve life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. If agape love is to always do what is best for another regardless of their response and regardless of the cost to one’s self, how do I balance love and torture?

Ray Alger

Dallas

I found David Gushee’s position on torture mean-spirited and intolerant (May 18). There is no clear biblical teaching on torture when used to gain information from terrorists that may be vital to national security.

Jesus’ teachings call us to a personal ethic of avoiding insulting and vengeful behavior. Correctly interpreted, they do not inhibit defense of self or others against injury or death, or a government’s actions to protect its people.

Thomas Sowell wrote an excellent editorial challenging torture opponents to consider what they would do if someone they loved was strapped to a time bomb somewhere and a captured terrorist had information that could save them. No one ever wants war, killing or torture, but I for one believe the government not only can but should take actions necessary, to the extent possible, to repel evil in the world and save innocent lives.

More importantly, even though there is no biblical support for such a view, Gushee (online editorial) suggests those who disagree with his position against torture are not true Christians. Regardless of how one feels about the issue of torture, this level of self-righteousness and arrogance should be repudiated by all who value Christian unity and freedom of thought and biblical interpretation. As emotional and divisive as this issue is, there is still far more to unite us as biblical Christians and much ministry and mission for us to accomplish together.

David Rodgers

Texarkana

Snake’s eyes

This letter is directed to the lady who has the misinformation about rattlesnakes (April 20). I can tell she hasn’t encountered one and studied how long she would have to live if one strikes and bites her.

Her address shows she doesn’t live in Texas. For every rattlesnake that is “rounded up,” thousands of others take its place.

If you have ever looked one in the eyes and wondered what you were going to do next, you would know they are sneaky and dangerous—and deadly.

Carolyn Lockhart

Port Neches

More on turture

Torture never is right (May 18). I have seen it firsthand, both in the U.S. Army and in America’s prisons. It affects those who torture.

I give one example to state my case.

Years ago, I saw a state prisoner do wrong on the prison grounds through the window in the dining room. A few minutes later, I was in a room next to the main office. I heard an illegal beating of a prisoner take place. I asked one of the office inmates if they heard that often. His reply was, “We don’t hear a thing, Chaplain.”

Perhaps the illegal beating kept the prisoner inbounds for a while. But it was against the law for the officers to do that. I went to the warden the next morning to report what took place. The warden told me to get back to preaching and they will run the prison. After three years in the prison I resigned.

Torturing made a liar out of former President George W. Bush. My warden also would have said, “We don’t torture.” Torturing can become enjoyable to the one who tortures. Sept. 11, 2001, was horrible, but it was done by a very weak enemy. We made a lot of terrorists by our actions of going into Iraq, torturing and not concentrating on the terrorists.

Jack R. Milligan

Lewisville

Thank you for standing up on the issue of torture (May18). I also was appalled to learn Christians are the largest group in the United States to support the use of torture. I am a Christian who does not support torture.

It was heartening to read your editorial pointing out torture is the absolute opposite of Christlike behavior.

Jeanette Mayo

Tyler

Off the cuff and with no experience whatsoever, I still lack no opinion on torture.  Seems to me to “almost” drown some person would be torture.  Although I have never drowned, I have had the experience of feeling that I might be drowning when water was taken in to the wind pipe and the first part of the lungs, in attempting some swimming trick I should not have tried. The experience, especially on a repeated basis with no control to terminate the experience, is torture to me.  I do not doubt it causes anguish of body or mind.

Obvious, what one considers torture is not necessarily considered to be so by another.  There are markedly different thresholds of pain and agony for different persons.

Like pornography, as one of our former U.S. Supreme Court justices opined: I can’t define it ,but I know it when I see it.  Torture is a very personal not completely expressible condition imposed upon a person.

Holt Irby

Garland

Bloated SBC bureaucracy

I would appreciate the leaders fomenting the Southern Baptist Convention’s Great Commission Resurgence addressing the bloated bureaucracy that has occurred with the establishment of secondary state convention groups in several states.

If they really want to cut down on bloating, they would get those groups to reenter the mainstream of Baptist life and rejoin their states’ historic conventions. Until they can accomplish that, they will ever be known as hypocritical.

Bob Gillchrest

San Diego

Americans & torture

In regard to your editorial on torture (May 18), I respectfully disagree with your definition.

My family has been in four wars—World War I, my father; World War II, my brother and I; the Korean War, my brother, who was killed in action; and the Vietnam War, my son.

In all of these, torture was described as bodily harm, such as the Jews were treated in Germany. I have not seen any bodily harm, such as breaking of limbs or other dismemberment of body functions, by the United States.

The methods have been used before by fraternities, along with depth perception and other hazing, which I don’t approve by inexperienced people.

Please review what you think consists of torture. Why does discomfort conform to torture?

Taylor Paul

Tyler

Discussing if something is technically torture or not is like discussing any ethical issue. If you think something might be torture, it almost always is torture.

Waterboarding is drowning someone to the edge of them losing consciousness, then stopping and repeating the process.

Torture has been used for thousands of years. Torture is an effective way that Romans, nobles, the Catholic Church, New England Puritans, Nazis and Communists obtained confessions for political purposes. Perhaps all the Bush Administration was interested in was confessions, since the justification for the Iraq war proved false.

It is well-established that torture is not an effective way to gather intelligence information. If the prisoner actually knows nothing and is tortured, he/she will tell the interrogator anything to stop the torture. Then investigators will waste hundreds of hours following up on this bad information. Meanwhile, more traditional questioning methods yield better results.

Aside from the lack of effectiveness of torture, does any sane person believe it is OK to inflict pain and horror on another human being for any reason?

When we do this, the terrorists have won. They have succeeded in making us savage animals just like them.

Ray Atkinson

Dallas

Pure Pentecost

Randel Everett’s April 20 column concerned celebrating Pentecost Sunday. Many Christians do not know nor practice Jesus’ commandment found in Matthew 28:20. Most think the Great Commission starts and ends in Matthew 28:19. But verse 20 plainly states the disciples were to teach all new Christians Jesus’ commandments. Jesus was not talking about Old Testament commandments that teach us what God defines as “sin.” The New Testament teaches us that although we are under grace, we should know the Old Testament commandments so we will know what displeases God and live as nearly perfect as we can.

It appears the disciples were teaching the new Christians Jesus’ commandments and other important information about or from Jesus as well as practicing what they had been taught. I believe that is why the Holy Spirit was able to bring conviction on the masses during the Pentecostal period.

Any church that will teach new Christians the Old Testament commandments so that they will know what “sin” is and attempt to avoid it after repenting of past sins and teach Jesus’ commandments and obey them will experience a Pentecost harvest of souls for the kingdom.

Raymond D. Anderson

Texarkana

Praise for William J. Reynolds

I would like to add my words of praise for William J. Reynolds to those of Ragan Courtney (May 4). Dr. Reynolds presided over the Sunday School Board’s Church Music Department at a time when Southern Baptists became “somebody” in the world of evangelical musicians.

Bill successfully built on to the solid base that had been laid by those “pioneers” who preceeded him.  We church musicians could say with a certain pride that “we were Southern Baptists.”  We finally stood shoulder-to-shoulder with church musicians of other mainstream evangelical denominations.

Many are not aware that he was an encourager and source of help at a time when Southern Baptists had many missionaries who used music as a main thrust in their mission work.  He helped many of us who served in Brazil, and he and T.W. Hunt led in a conference of  “music missionaries” from all over Latin America.

On my furloughs, he honored me with invitations to attend the annual meetings of state music secretaries. These were so helpful to me, as I had been invited by Brazilian Baptists to organize their church music department, and my only experience had been that of a minister of music.

Bill was a personal friend to me as well as to my “music missionary” son, Carlos.  We will miss him, his big booming voice, his inspirational song leading and his love of people and of the Lord.

Bill Ichter

Minden, La.

What do you think? Send letters to Editor Marv Knox by mail: P.O. Box 660267, Dallas 75266-0267; or by e-mail: marvknox@baptiststandard.com. Length limit is 250 words.

Help small churches

David T. Olson claims: “It’s probably five to seven times easier to plant a new church than to help an established church that’s in deep difficulty restore its vitality” (April 6).

This line of reasoning has led to the phenomenon that was reported to the BGCT Executive Board several months ago. A staff member said 54.8 percent of BGCT-affiliated churches average less than 50 in Sunday school attendance. Churches this small cannot have strong youth, music and mission programs. They mostly concentrate on survival.

I have tried to count Baptist churches in or near Kilgore, population 11,000. There are more than 25, most falling in the under-50 category. About one-fourth are affiliated with the BGCT. Starting missions often means adding small churches that never will grow strong. Working to strengthen small churches may be more difficult, but it may be better in the long run. Starting new work is exciting, but God may not want us taking the easy way.

I’m trying to practice what I preach. I have started a program aimed at strengthening small churches. We join together for fifth-Sunday hymn singing, January Bible study and monthly breakfast meetings with local pastors.

Charles Whiteside

Kilgore

Relevant churches

Many churches are beginning to do some form of “faith in action”—being the church. They are to be commended. Two complaints I have heard from fundamentalists concern (a) engaging in service projects as a form of “being the church” and (b) doing “faith in action” on Sunday “instead” of worship.

To the first concern, if any “service project” is not a platform for evangelism or “pure religion” as the Apostle James defines it, then it should not be done at all.

Second, First Baptist Church in Vernon simultaneously took lay-preachers and worship teams to six state institutions and nursing care centers, did door-to-door evangelism to 300 people, preached to and fed 150 kids in the park, fixed major problems at the houses of 10 elderly people, cleared the brush from 20 elderly people’s houses, prayed for 12 hours straight, and delivered meals to 150 poor folks. None of the people we served were in church on Sunday morning—hence reaching them in their homes on a Sunday—and all of them received a copy of God’s inerrent, inspired, authoritative word. That’s why we do it on Sunday.

We go to church to worship, learn and grow. We leave the church to demonstrate our worship to a world in desperate need of Christlike examples.

I invite every reader to become relevant to their community. If you are not relevant, then you are irrelevant.

Let’s let God judge the efforts of churches to fulfill the Great Commission.

Ben Macklin

Vernon

Praise for Reynolds

I would like to add my words of praise for William J. Reynolds to those of Ragan Courtney (May 4). Dr. Reynolds presided over the Sunday School Board’s Church Music Department at a time when Southern Baptists became “somebody” in the world of evangelical musicians.

Bill successfully built on to the solid base that had been laid by those “pioneers” who preceeded him.  We church musicians could say with a certain pride that “we were Southern Baptists.”  We finally stood shoulder-to-shoulder with church musicians of other mainstream evangelical denominations.

Many are not aware that he was an encourager and source of help at a time when Southern Baptists had many missionaries who used music as a main thrust in their mission work.  He helped many of us who served in Brazil, and he and T.W. Hunt led in a conference of  “music missionaries” from all over Latin America.

On my furloughs, he honored me with invitations to attend the annual meetings of state music secretaries. These were so helpful to me, as I had been invited by Brazilian Baptists to organize their church music department, and my only experience had been that of a minister of music.

Bill was a personal friend to me as well as to my “music missionary” son, Carlos.  We will miss him, his big booming voice, his inspirational song leading and his love of people and of the Lord.

Bill Ichter

Minden, La.

Rare blessing

Bill Reynolds was a churchman with outstanding gifts. He wrote songs that were elegant expressions of his faith and touched the lives of thousands—if not millions—of Christians with his work.

My life also was affected in a profound, personal way as he led the Church Music Department at a time that seemed like a Golden Age at the former Baptist Sunday School Board. He encouraged me as a young believer-artist by using materials I had written for the Church Training Department.

His invitations for me to attend Church Music Week at Glorieta and Ridgecrest helped shape my life and my ministry. He would conduct those packed auditoriums filled with church musicians as they sang with such abandonment out of sheer delight of being together in such a holy place that one could not help but be thrilled!

Without him being aware of it, he brought me and my wife, Cynthia Clawson, together as we did a premier performance of “Celebrate Life!”—the musical that Buryl Red and I wrote so long ago during one of those weeks.

The likes of that kind of musician is a rare blessing to us all. I feel sure he feels at home singing with the heavenly host because he had a taste of it in New Mexico and North Carolina.

Ragan Courtney

Austin

School textbooks

I was so happy to read that the Texas Board of Education sided with academic freedom instead of academic censorship.

I can’t imagine why some folks would be afraid to allow students to learn how to think through critiquing, analyzing and debating ideas. What is scary is when the powers-that-be in a bureaucracy enshrine certain ideas like evolution and try to silence anyone who would ask reasonable questions and expect intellectual discourse, but instead get “poo-pooed.”

I have personal experience of being ridiculed for having a dissenting opinion.

I would recommend Ben Stein’s Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed. It exposes the hypocrisy of the scientific establishment in this country. It is a scary movie, but quite entertaining.

Jean Whitmore

Okinawa, Japan

Tweener interpretation

You never know what you’ll face when teaching tweeners.

Teetering precariously between childhood and teenagers, they can be precocious one minute and shocking the next.

I was talking to the kids in my sixth grade Sunday school class about how God wants them to resist negative peer pressure. And he expects them to exert positive pressure on their peers by doing the right thing and showing Jesus’ love.

We discussed Noah and Pilate. Then, one of the girls started reading the account of Samson and Delilah (Judges 16:4-19):

“Some time later, he fell in love with a woman in the Valley of Sorek whose name was Delilah.

“The rulers of the Philistines went to her and said, ‘See if you can lure him into showing you the secret of his great strength and how we can overpower him so we may tie him up and subdue him. Each one of us will give you eleven hundred shekels of silver.’

“So Delilah said to Samson, ‘Tell me the secret of your great strength and how you can be tied up and subdued.’

“Samson answered her, ‘If anyone ties me with seven fresh thongs that have not been dried, I’ll become as weak as any other man.’”

At the word “thongs,” a great “ewwww” rose up from the group.

I don’t think Bible translators were prepared for 21st century tweeners’ interpretation.

We quickly went on to the next example without much discussion.

David Alvey

Richardson

What do you think? Because we affirm the Baptist principle of the priesthood of all believers, we value hearing from our readers. Send letters to Editor Marv Knox by mail: P.O. Box 660267, Dallas 75266-0267; or by e-mail: marvknox@baptiststandard.com. Due to space considerations, limit letters to 250 words, and only one letter per writer per quarter.

Gracias from Galveston

Thanks, much obliged, gracias, or as many words as are appropriate to say how very much we in Galveston Baptist Association appreciate all of the response we have had as a result of the ravages of Hurricane Ike. The people of Texas have overwhelmed us with concern and assistance. Money and volunteers have come in tremendous amounts to help us in this time of need. This has come from associations, churches and individuals. Blessings on everyone.

We still have a good ways to go, but we are making progress, and for this we give thanks to God. Be assured that Baptists in Texas will be gratefully remembered for years to come.

Please remember: Our gratitude knows no bounds.

Grayson Glass, interim executive director

Galveston Baptist Association

Galveston

Mental illness & sin

My family was dismayed to read Joyce Brumley’s letter concerning the church and mental illness (April 6).

She asks, “What is the church’s responsibility?” I would answer that the church’s responsibility is to “weep with those who weep” (Romans 12:15) and “Bear one another’s burdens and thus fulfill the law of Christ” (Galatians 6:2).

Families suffer profound grief over the great pain their loved ones with mental illness must endure. This biological illness is cruelly aggravated by undeserved guilt and shame.

How many precious saints who lived their lives serving their Lord Jesus Christ spend their last years on Earth with their minds clouded by mental disorders such as Alzheimer’s? Must we go to their bedsides and blame them for their illness? Mental illness is a biological disease as are diabetes, cancer, heart problems, etc.

Sadly, those who suffer from mental illness must battle not only the disease but the stigma surrounding it.

Carole Harrell

Dallas

My heart broke when I read Joyce Brumley’s letter to the editor. I recalled 1953 and again felt the sadness of my sweet, precious mother as she plunged into a major depression. Her attempted suicide left us devastated.

It is now 50-plus years later, and I see again the same attitude: If you stay in God’s word, you won’t have mental illness. Would you tell a person with cancer and diabetes they have their diseases because they did not stay in God’s word?

I do agree with Brumley’s statement that fears play a bigger role in mental illness than we may realize. Only it is the fear of the mentally ill and their families toward those who would rather shout, “Repent!” than educate themselves about mental illness.

What is the responsibility of the church? Perhaps it could be to judge not (Matthew 7) and love thy neighbor (Mark 12).

Lola Vines Cruz

Amarillo

Mental illness does not discriminate among Christians or non-Christians, rich or poor, race or culture.

As a mental health employee, I observe and treat many deeply religious folks who also have severe mental illness. Perhaps it would be wise for anyone who believes otherwise to learn about brain chemistry and how it works.

Jeanette Parker

Hartsburg, Mo.

In “Church & mental illness,” I have difficulty with the statement, “The idea that mental illness is based on sin is debatable when one believes the Scriptures.” The statements could be made, “Cancer is based on sin,” or, “Heart attacks are based on sin.”

God, who is the object of my faith, and the Scriptures, that are a lamp unto my feet, give me a different answer as to what is sin.

I have experience with mental illness that afflicted two individuals who were my companions. I have difficulty with the statement that their illness is based on sin. To me it is not debatable.

I know “fear.” I also know about praying. I know about “peace.” But to say they are healing factors is unreal to me. I have found peace, and it came by faith in God the Father, Jesus Christ the Son and the Holy Spirit and not by logic, human understanding, or by the length of prayer.

Dale Geis

Norman, Okla.

Care for poor

During natural disasters and economic hard times, the world’s poor always suffer more than their due for the unfortunate happenings they did not cause.

Is there a single country in the world that is so pro-life it puts the needs of the living poor first? What might happen if the richest nations on earth decided to reverse the prevailing trickle-down economic model and invest the wealth in meeting the basic needs of the world’s poor majority?

Might not God, the Creator of all humankind, then answer nations’ prayers pleading for God’s blessings? Could it be the world economic crisis is really the result of a core moral and spiritual problem—greed?

Paul L. Whiteley

Louisville, Ky.

Church of Acts

Justin Martyr’s second-century description of a meeting where all gather, the Scripture is read and the president verbally instructs sounds familiar. The Apostle Paul’s description of a meeting featuring a song, a teaching, a tongue, a revelation or an interpretation sounds foreign.

The former describes a culturally influenced and dictated practice dividing clergy and laity, thus making a mockery of the priesthood of the believers. When meeting participation is limited to paid staff or directed worship teams and ordination is required to conduct baptisms or serve the Lord’s Supper, there is no priesthood of the believer.

Justin’s is an organization of hierarchy ruled by the elite, and Paul’s is an organism governed by Christ as its head.

Asking the pastor, “What do we believe?” is not the answer. God’s will for the church already has been revealed in the New Testament. Recognizing and rejecting the cultural influences and changes in the practice of faith is the start to experiencing church life as God intends. George Barna and Frank Viola’s book, Pagan Christianity, extensively documents these changes.

Many hunger for the vitality and love of the church as portrayed in Acts. It will not come by unbiblical reforms of unbiblical practices.

Baptists are the grayest religious group, so maybe with their passing a new generation will reject the failing status quo and embrace a paradigm shift where God’s will is pre-eminent and supersedes centuries of man-made traditions.

Ray Alger

Dallas

Next up: wasps

The pain and suffering intentionally perpetrated upon animals during rattlesnake roundups is unimaginable. Rattlesnakes only bite to defend themselves and actively avoid contact with humans. These fascinating reptiles are a critical part of a healthy ecosystem.

During roundups, dens and burrows are sprayed with gasoline, and snakes are ripped from their hollows with fishhook-tipped poles. The animals are jammed into sacks and garbage cans and left without food or water. When the killing begins, the snakes are bludgeoned, whipped against the floor or wall, or skinned alive. Others have their mouths sewn shut so they can be manhandled by the public and used as photo props.

These barbaric events are unconscionable and should be outlawed.

Jennifer O’Connor

Norfolk, Va.

Good Thursday

As you say, Good Friday is “the most awkwardly and confusingly named day of the year” (April 6). But it is not correct that Good Friday was “the day Jesus suffered and died on the cross.”

His own words are proof he died on Thursday! We need to read Jesus very carefully, for it was Jesus himself who said he would be three days and three nights in the tomb. He added the sign of Jonah to emphasize his words.

It is elementary arithmetic that Good Friday’s two days and two nights do not concur with Jesus’ three days and three nights. His very specific utterance can be matched only one way—Thursday!

Don’t our Bible scholars understand Jews always have observed the first day of Passover as a “Special Sabbath,” (John 19:31), and whenever that day falls on a Friday, it always was and still is customary for Jews to observe a double Sabbath, beginning sunset Thursday and ending sunset Saturday?

Every Orthodox Jew has known that and knows it today. Jesus was a Jewish rabbi. Why do our scholars ignore that, not accept it as fact?

Jesus is risen from the dead, as he said. Jesus died for us on Thursday, as he said.

Val Borum

Fort Worth

Church & mental illness

What is the church’s responsibility? The responsibility of the church is found in 2 Timothy 1:7: “For, God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of power, love and a sound mind.”

So, the idea that mental illness is based on sin is debatable when one believes the Scriptures. God gave Christians a spirit of a sound mind, so I would advocate Christians better stay planted in God’s word to avoid mental issues.

A recent article (March 3) said Saul, Nebuchadnezzar and Job may have had mental problems. It is clear that Saul and Nebuchadnezzar had sin problems. Job recognized God through it all. Satan actually had to get permission from God to touch Job. Satan’s purpose was to get Job to deny God. Early on, Job claims, “For I know that my Redeemer lives, and on the earth again shall stand” (Job 19:25). The last chapters of Job find him repenting and seeking God. God restores Job.

The element of fear plays a bigger role in mental illness than we may realize. Jesus al-ways is, and still is, the answer. Peace over fear could be a healing factor. And Jesus is peace.

Joyce Brumley

Grand Prairie

Thank you for “Through a glass darkly” (March 3). It was right on the money.

You accurately describe how too many overlook the needs of those with mental illness.

The government, the private investments and/or the religious organization that recognizes and steps forward to provide safe, economical and surpervised community housing for those who do not need to be institutionalized will deserve worldwide and heavenly rewards.

May that day come.

Houston O’Brien

Eastland

Generous spirits

I suppose you have heard about the woman who had eight “test tube” babies.

Normally, when a woman undergoing fertility treatments or in vitro fertilization has multiple pregnancies, some of the unborn babies (or embryos, zygotes, etc.) are killed so that the other babies have a better chance to survive. I don’t think it is right to create a lot of backup babies just so some of them can be killed. I also don’t think babies should be created for body parts or fetal tissue.

As someone who is against eugenics, slavery and forced human experimentation, I think the government needs to pass a law that limits the number of babies (or embryos/zygotes, etc.) that can be implanted into someone.

Also, the rights of test tube babies should be clarified. They do have some rights, don’t they?

Chuck Mann

Greensboro, N.C.

What do you think? Because we affirm the Baptist principle of the priesthood of all believers, we value hearing from our readers. Send letters to Editor Marv Knox by mail: P.O. Box 660267, Dallas 75266-0267; or by e-mail: marvknox@baptiststandard.com. Due to space considerations, limit letters to 250 words, and only one letter per writer per quarter.

I was inspired and challenged by “If your church disappeared, would anyone even notice?” (Feb. 23) I issued the challenge to our congregation to think outside the walls in terms of our ministry endeavors in our community.

As I continued to ponder this question, it became more personal. We are the church. It is not only the ministries of First Baptist Church that must impact Tahoka. It is the personal ministry of each individual member that must impact our community.

For me, the question has also become, “If you, as the church, disappeared, would anyone even notice?” Would it make a difference in the school system, at sporting events, in civic organizations or local businesses? Do you impact the lives of others for the cause of Christ?

The activity of the church within the community is not limited to the organized programs of the church. It is each and every member “loving their neighbor as themselves.” Corporately and individually, we must reach out to our communities.

Richard Harbison

Tahoka

‘God’s money’

“Executive Board authorizes use of emergency funds” (March 9) made me disturbed about the decision-making capabilities of BGCT management.

Is Nestor Menjivar the only voice on the BGCT Executive Board questioning this decision to purchase a constituent relationship management (CRM) system having cost overruns of over 50 percent—when the budget for this project was over $1.49 million to begin with? And then to allow this kind of scope creep—up to $2.14 million—for a CRM system? Management allowing a cost overrun of over $600,000 “of God’s money”? What else is in that budget? How did this happen?

As a technology entrepreneur who has worked with much larger organizations than the BGCT, this is simply hard to comprehend.

What consultant sold the BGCT this bill of goods? Apparently, they found a “mark” and took our hard-earned sacred offering money and wasted it on an ill-conceived CRM system. This is shameful and unacceptable indication of mismanagement and misapplication of our church’s hard-earned and sacred offerings.

Does the Executive Board not know that we give the money to support its work? Do they think they are operating in a vacuum? This is a serious and hurtful betrayal of trust, the trust that millions of Texas Baptists have for their denominational office. All along, we believed that sending offerings to BGCT was a gift to support missions.

Please do not expect our struggling churches to continue to send our budgeted offerings to such a mismanaged organization. Please take this to heart.

Sam Smith

Waco

Evil & peace

Former President Carter is quoted, “There’s not any real difference among the three major religions concerning their commitment to peace and the alleviation of suffering or moral values” (March 9).

For a political and spiritual leader to promote that belief is disastrous for the safety of the United States.

Equal moral values between the three religions? Commitment to peace? Alleviation of suffering? There is not an Islamic-controlled nation in the world that allows the free expression of religion. Many of these nations subjugate women to the most base treatment. Many of these nations support and vow the total destruction of Israel.

Violence is fundamental to these nations. Muslims all over the world were seen in the streets celebrating the 9/11 attack on the United States.

It is not a sin to recognize evil and to act to defend ourselves. Peace at any price will destroy our nation.

Al Havenstrite

Cookville

Standard Baptist?

Being a rural pastor, I frequently wear a cap when out and about, and for some time, my usual has been my Baptist Standard cap.

I’m a member of the Hico Independent School District school board and habitually sit next to another member who happens to be a staunch member of the Church of Christ. At our last meeting, I was wearing my Baptist Standard cap as we made our way toward the usual meeting room. When we settled in waiting for the meeting to get started, he asked me, “Just what is a standard Baptist, anyway?”

That cracked me up as I remembered a recent editorial about our rather divisive heritage as Baptists. My response to his question was that there really isn’t any such thing as a “standard Baptist” and that the Baptist Standard is our state Baptist newspaper. He and I both had a good laugh at the thought of there being such a thing as a “standard Baptist”!

I personally think it is a good thing to cherish our heritage. And I’m glad the Baptist Standard is not about standardizing Baptists, but faithfully carrying the standard of Baptists in Texas.

Dave Keith

Carlton

Two cents’ worth

In the Temple during Passion Week, our Lord was observing the people tossing their offerings in the treasury box and saw a poor widow toss in two mites, similar to our two cents. He said she contributed more than any of the others because she gave all she had.

I asked a friend, Al Roper, to calculate how much two cents invested at 4 percent compounded annually for 1,979 years would now be worth. He concludes: $102,331,294,482,228, 000,000,000,000,000,000.00

Some preacher observations:

• Our “two cents’ worth” might be worth something if given enough time.

• What is truly given to the Lord increases in value.

• It is not so much what we give, but what we have left for ourselves.

• Some say that compound interest is the eighth wonder of the world.

• “Giving to the Lord” is really not a gift unless the Lord receives it.

• Underlying motives of the heart in whatever we do or give is the most important thing.

The poor widow is an example of genuine giving and an indictment to those who give with selfish motives.

My mother-in-law, Roxie, had a saying on her kitchen wall: “We’ve only one life to live, and will soon be past, and only what is done for Christ will last.”

Jewell Barrett

Nashville, Tenn.

Science vs. faith

I have a problem with the whole science vs. religion thing (Feb. 9).

What is religion? One definition of religion is: “A cause, principle or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith.” This is a perfect definition of evolution!

Science should be about what can be measured or proved. The theory of evolution is more religion than it is science. Pick up a National Geographic or any science textbook, and you will almost always find these words, “scientists believe.” Why does this carry more weight than “theologians believe”?

The article quotes Michael Zimmerman, dean at Butler University, who says, “But for far too long, strident voices, in the name of Christianity, have been claiming that people must choose between religion and modern science.” I disagree with this statement on many levels.

First, if scientists “believe something” rather than “prove or know something,” we are in the realm of religion and not science. Second, this is clearly not the choice that God has presented to us. God tells us to choose between Christ and everything else. Third, Christianity is not supposed to be a religion. It is supposed to be a relationship with God in Christ Jesus. Fourth, I wonder why so many people are so determined to keep even the mention of intelligent design out of every classroom in the nation.

Buddy Helms,

Big Lake

The Feb. 9 publication was the best ever. I especially liked the broad coverage of Darwin’s theory of evolution and the debate regarding intelligent design.

My husband and I, along with a group of friends, had just watched Inherit the Wind, which we had seen originally many years ago. It would be very fitting for Christians to take a second look at this movie.

While I can respect the fact honorable people differ on their opinion regarding creation, I must admit that I cannot understand why thinking people cannot allow that God could use science as a part of his creation. I see no discrepancy in merging science with religion.

Marjean Kitts

Arlington

A few words to encourage those who want to believe God created, out of nothing, simply by a “word,” through the Word (Jesus).

There has never been any “evolution”—one species evolving into another. We see changes in the created spectrum only as they have the genetic code already in place that allows them to adapt and change.

Equally intelligent and informed people can either believe in “evolution” or creation. It is not a matter of science!

Science is too limited to prove or disprove. I am afraid many Christians who have little scientific backgound may be intimidated by the voices of the Richard Dawkinses. Do you think he believes in the resurrection of our Lord? Of course not. He doesn’t believe in anything “supernatural.” So, if you do, you are able to have a different set of “tools” of logic.

If God can raise from the dead, he can create out of nothing!

The only reason to propose millions of years of evolution is that it couldn’t have happened in an instant (by a word). Anything that can be proven is compatible with the Bible.

Please, when you look at a flower, or a kitten, or that 1-year-old toddler (who is grabbing my keyboard!), begin to praise and thank and worship this unfathomable Creator who tells us to walk by faith, informed by reality and “real” truth. You will find the power and joy you have been missing!

Dale R. Lucus

Cleburne

Truly ethical

It’s ironic, and fitting, that your editorial on integrity would appear in the same issue as news of the death of former Samford University President Thomas E. Corts (Feb. 9). You raised the question, “Is it too much to ask people to behave the same in private as they do in public?”

Tom Corts always did just that. His family, friends and colleagues all knew the character and integrity he displayed in public was the same found at home and in his private life. He “validated the faith he proclaimed” in every setting. The many tributes to his legacy in newspapers, on Facebook and MySpace, and in other venues all attest to his integrity.

When an unexpected opportunity came in 2003 to return to higher education administration after an absence of several years, the only reason I considered it was because the offer came from Samford University and Tom Corts. His personal reputation, intricately entwined with the strong international reputation he helped to build for Samford, mattered most to our family.

As fate would have it, we also had the opportunity to share church membership with Tom and Marla Corts after our family moved to Birmingham. There were no better friends or encouragers in that venue than the Cortses. It was the same encouragement I received every day at Samford. With Tom Corts as a mentor and model, I hope I can strive to be the same person in public and private—a person of unquestioned integrity.

Philip Poole

Birmingham, Ala.

‘Cause more trouble’

I want to respond to Shirley Taylor, who has formed a website to cause more trouble by asking women to join in her fight against “Cold heart toward women” (Feb. 9).

It is about time these disgruntled women learn what the New Testament has to say about women pastors and deacons.

Remember, God told the Apostle Paul these instructions. They did not come from the men of the church. I refer Taylor and her female friends to refer to, and study and digest the following Scriptures: 1 Timothy 3:2-13, 2:12-13; and 2 Timothy 2:36.

These words, when analyzed prayerfully, show plainly that God does not want women pastors or deacons.Why? Well, they will have to take that up with God.

I admire churches who have the spiritual backbone to stand up to the women’s movement to destroy the church. The churches are just following the teachings of Jesus. Should we not all be?

Neal Murphy

San Augustine

Climate ‘myths’

I read with considerable dismay the Feb. 9 article on environmental damage. It perpetuates three of the myths about our climate that have become prevalent.

First, scientists have not reached consensus about so-called global warming. In fact, thousands of scientists, many with actual meteorological credentials, believe the earth is in a perpetual state of climate change, there is no absolute evidence connecting global climate change to human activity and the earth has actually begun to cool in the last few years.

Second, the intensity of hurricanes has not increased significantly over the past several years. Damage may have increased due to more people building in coastal areas, but hurricane scientists will not attribute any intensity increase to the warming of the seas, since the seas have actually not become warmer in the past few years.

Third, our atmospheric quality has not become worse. Actually, atmospheric quality in and around major cities is considerably better now than three or four decades ago.

Nevertheless, we could and should do much better in protecting and preserving the quality of our air. There is no doubt that children, the elderly and others suffer because air quality is not as good as it could be.

However, we need to work to protect and preserve in the right way, through cooperative efforts among government, the public and industry.

R. Terry Campbell

Big Canoe, Ga.

U.S. & torture

Former Vice President Dick Cheney emerged to criticize President Obama after Obama had been in office a little more than two weeks. Cheney likes to say the “enhanced interrogation techniques” (torture) kept America safe. He says other than the 9-11 attacks, America has not suffered any terrorists attacks since that day. I am reminded of the infamous question supposedly asked in the spring of 1865, “Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?”

Did we suffer the attacks of 9-11 because of a lack of torture? Or could it be that we were attacked because those elected to protect us ignored vital intelligence and failed to act in a competent manner?

In 1692, the daughter and niece of a preacher in Salem, Mass., started hysteria about “witches” that resulted in the torture and deaths of 24 people—19 by hanging and five died in prison. Since that time, to the best of my knowledge, there have been no attacks on America by “witches.” Is this further proof that torture works?

I find it difficult to believe Americans, especially Christians, are even discussing this subject. I am thankful this shameful chapter in America’s history has ended.

Carl L. Hess

Ozark, Ala.

Acts of God

Many of my life’s storms sometime identify with Elijah. Jezebel was in hot pursuit of Elijah; he had slain all the false prophets. God sent an angel to touch Elijah and provide him with food, but Elijah had a pity party. He was the only one left who loved and obeyed God.

The angel took Elijah out to the mountain, and the Lord passed by in a great strong wind, broke the rocks on the mountain into pieces, sent an earthquake and a fire, and Elijah finally recognized God in a still, small voice.

In 1960, when I started work in property insurance, policies actually cited causes of loss known as “acts of God.” Adjusters used that term often when settling a claim. Nowadays, insurance policies recognize windstorm, hurricane, hail and lightening mostly as “causes of loss.”

Law cited the definition I know in insurance as “acts of God” when I begin my insurance career. It described perils that do not require human help. Further, there was no way man could intervene or prevent the “God action.”

We no longer refer to windstorm, hurricanes, hail, floods, tsunamis, earthquake, etc. as “acts of God.” Global warming, and/or climate change are terms for natural disasters. In addition, we hear about man’s intervention with a green plan.

There is a God plan, too, an “act of God” known as the Jesus plan. This plan does require some intervention from humankind, known as a Christian’s voice.

Joyce Brumley

Grand Prairie

Truth not being represented

Absolutely no form of evolution is compatible with Genesis. Yes, there is a 600+ million-year record of escalating death, but the correct reading of the first chapter of Genesis told mankind about the geologic history of Earth more than 3,000 years before secular science discovered it.

Both creationism and theology have failed to do their homework, and the truth of Genesis is not being represented. Unfortunately, the news media has practiced censorship in ignoring the world’s leading expert on Genesis, keeping the public in the dark about the available truth of scripture.

There are no creation accounts in Genesis. Creationism is not the opposing view of evolution. Biblical Creation is the opposing view of “the Big Bang” theory. The Observations of Moses (Genesis 1:1–2:3) is the opposing view of evolution.

Therefore, there is no “creation/evolution” contest. There are Factual Genesis seminars available to educate the public if institutions are willing the host them.

Herman Cummings
Fortson, Ga.

Beasts of the earth

In a synoptic view of my biblical theory on evolution, I found it necessary to make a distinction between biblical man, Adam, and evolutionary man, the Homo sapiens or “beast of the earth” referenced in Genesis 1:24.

Adam was created as a human being, and the evolution species would belong to the “beast of the earth” creature category. Therefore, at the time Adam was created, this species of the “beasts of the earth”—Homo sapiens—would have pre-existed, which everyone presumes to be the same as a human being.

If, in fact, Homo sapiens belongs to the “beast of the earth,” it could have evolved from its original state such as the cave dweller and so forth, but not in the line of Darwin’s theory. It had all the faculties to form a social way of living as did most other mammals such as the elephant, lion, etc., by natural instinct.

While there are pages more to be said, which would also include Cain’s mate, I hope this outline might inspire some consideration from someone dealing with intelligent design.

I should state that I do not hold to each day of creation as being a day as we know it, but subscribe to what the Apostle Peter said in 2Peter 3:8.

Also this theory came to me after contemplating what Peter and Jude both said about “brute beasts” in 2 Peter 2:12 and Jude 1:10. However, I am not inferring these verses have any direct relation to Genesis.

Larry T. Judd

Dickinson

What do you think? We value your opinion. Send letters to Editor Marv Knox by mail: P.O. Box 660267, Dallas 75266-0267; or by e-mail: marvknox@baptiststandard.com. Due to space constraints, length limit is 250 words, and only one letter per quarter per writer.

More than ‘capital’

Two things stuck out to me in the Jan. 26 Baptist Standard.

First was the cover story , “Doing well, doing good,” which included the statement: “However, they measure not only financial capital, but also human, environmental and social capital.”

The second was Marv Knox’s editorial, “Disenthrall ourselves … and save,” in which he said: “Because of prejudice, we make objects of people who are different from us. And because of prejudice, we blaspheme the image of God stamped into each human soul.”

I’m sure the use of the phrase “human capital” in the cover story was an innocent oversight. But that phrase conveys class prejudice or “classism.” To relegate human beings to the level of material objects—the substance of all capital—is to employ the language of slavery.

According to the principles of economics, there are but three things that can be used to create wealth—land, labor and capital. Labor clearly is not capital of any sort.

We suffer from a contrived shortage of respect for human life, human rights and human dignity in America today. The use of phrases like “human capital” and “human resources” contributes to that deficit.

I would urge everyone who respects human life, human rights and human dignity, whether for religious or other reasons, to avoid use of the terms “human capital” and “human resources.”

Human beings, after all, are created in the image of God.

Charles Reed

Waco

Faith, not science

Charles Darwin’s 200th birthday is Feb. 12. After more than 150 years of scientific study, Darwinian “Origin of Species” remains a theory today, never adopted as natural law.

How could life possibly appear by happenstance on our planet, all by itself, together with multiple environmental factors that are necessary, in exact measure, to maintain that life? Statistically, those probabilities “by chance and chance alone” are collectively infinitesimal.

Darwinism conflicts with natural laws of entropy, which “flows to a maximum.” As affirmed by Einstein, entropy is the inevitable degradation of all matter and energy in the universe, with ultimate disorder and chaos. It cannot reverse spontaneously. Overcoming it would require an extraneous source of immense power from something or someone.

The science of logic deals with cause and effect—never any effect without its cause. When we view the Golden Gate Bridge, it is logical to know there were designers and builders who put it there. Logically, Mona Lisa was painted by a great artist. Logically, a sunset, flower, birds in flight, a newborn baby all are possible only by miraculous power.

Call it faith, if you will. I call it God—heavens and earth show forth his handiwork.

As a scientist, I accept teaching in our schools of both spontanteous evolution plus intelligent design of evolution. But both must be presented as faith, not as science.

Val F. Borum

Fort Worth

What do you think? Because we affirm the Baptist principle of the priesthood of all believers, we value hearing from our readers. Send letters to Editor Marv Knox by mail: P.O. Box 660267, Dallas 75266-0267; or by e-mail: marvknox@baptiststandard.com. Due to space considerations, limit letters to 250 words, and only one letter per writer per quarter.

Dream Realized

What a historic occasion. Two hundred years after the birth of the signer of the Emancipation Proclamation and 80 years after the birth of the leader of the civil rights movement, America has its first African-American president. Even though Barack Obama wasn’t my candidate, I join with millions of Americans to celebrate this amazing episode in the life of America.

Only in America could a member of a minority group be elected leader of the nation. Sure, India’s prime minister is a Sikh in a nation overwhelmingly Hindu, but Manmohan Singh is still an Indian.

President Obama’s election, on the other hand, is different. His election is the fulfillment of the ideals of America and the hope of the Christian faith.

As an American, I rejoice in the realization of the founding fathers’ declaration that “all men are created equal.” But as a Christian, I am even more thankful that “there is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for (we) are all one in Christ Jesus” (Galatians 3:28).

Together as Christians, we should raise our voices in prayer for our new leader that God would give him wisdom to lead us through a very turbulent period in our nation’s history.

J.M. Givens Jr.

Altus, Okla.

A ‘General’ name

Ken Camp’s excellent summary of the origin of Baptists (Jan. 12) evokes a couple of observations:

First, the Landmark movement, which traced the origin of Baptists back to John the Baptist, is a case of misplaced name association. John’s baptism of repentance and Jesus’ baptism, which was a statement of his mission, were two different things. We are baptized to show forth Jesus’ death, burial and resurrection, even as he was at the onset of his earthly ministry.

The Landmarkists also gave us the term “alien immersion,” referring to those baptized by non-Baptists, leading to the conclusion that Baptists are the only Christians who practice scriptural baptism, a position which I find reprehensible, though many Baptist churches cling to this position today.

Second, Camp also pointed out Calvinism came to Baptist life through the Particular Baptists, who believed that “Christ died only for the elect,” whereas the General Baptists “believed Christ died for all.”

Assuming the word “general” identifies us with those who believe “Christ died for all,” then why are we trying to omit it from our name? Some Southern Baptist leaders are hyper-Calvinists, leaving me to wonder who or what is really motivating this name change. Before dropping the word “General” from our name, shouldn’t we know why it was included in the first place?

If the word bears such doctrinal significance, then we should be interpreting it for the current generation, rather than deleting it because it doesn’t speak to them.

Paul Kenley

Lampasas

History debated

Baptists love dissent as much as they love tolerance. They just can’t abide dissenters or the intolerant (Jan. 12). Baptists do love to fight, but they no longer are an unrespectable group of society’s misfits. Enjoying prestige as a force of worldly power in our culture requires the casting out of dissenters in order to maintain conformity. …

The perpetuation of the myth of Roger Williams as the first Baptist in America is on par with the myth of George Washington and the cherry tree. Never let the truth interfere with a good story. Williams (was a) Baptist …, but only for a short time. I guess if he still was on their roll, he still was a Baptist.

Finally, as long as our Anabaptist heritage is debatable, Baptists can plead ignorance on the New Testament command to love one’s enemies. Baptists remind me of the congregation in Mark Twain’s War Prayer that failed to understand praying for “our” victory included an unspoken prayer for the death and destruction of “our” enemies. For all of the understanding and application of overcoming evil with good, the New Testament could have been left untranslated in the Greek.

Ray Alger

Dallas

What do you think? We value hearing from our readers. Send letters to Editor Marv Knox by mail: P.O. Box 660267, Dallas 75266-0267; or by e-mail: marvknox@baptiststandard.com. Due to space, limit letters to 250 words, and only one letter per writer per quarter.

I agree we need a new name for our convention, but I disagree with the proposed name of Texas Baptist Convention. 

It is too vague and simple. Our new name needs to reflect a more global mission mindset.  How about Baptist Convention of the Americas? The current Baptist General Convention of Texas includes many cooperative churches and partnerships across North and South America, and the BGCT currently supports the Baptist University of the Americas in San Antonio.  Just a thought.

Blake O’Dell

Odessa

Long journey

The upside of the report that ministers are likely to dismiss or deny needs of the mentally ill (Nov. 17) is that 68 percent of ministers responded properly.

The article did not address the extreme difficulty in dealing with mentally ill people associated with our churches. A pastor or church or family can do very little if the mentally ill person will not cooperate. Our church has dealt directly with three diagnosed mentally ill people, and the results ranged from no effect to horrific.

The system of caring for the mentally ill in our nation now is flawed. It is difficult to get someone to seek care and take medication if they don’t want it. Our pastor and our members who were involved with trying to help these people have worked tirelessly to try to help them. About the only way this kind of impasse can be overcome is if the person overtly threatens someone or is perceived to be threatening harm to themselves. In the meantime, anguish, bizarre behavior and broken hearts prevail.

Thank God that nothing is impossible with him. That is the route to true healing in these cases, but it can be a long and arduous journey. We are aware of two cases of people previously associated with our church coming to healing in this area after much, much struggle and waiting.

Jerome Ellard

Big Sandy

Faithful to Scripture

“Graceless behavior” (Dec. 15) is an example of Baptists taking doctrine and theology into their own hands and making it not what God, through his written word, has determined it to be. Where does it say in Scripture women are to be bishops (pastors)?

It is dangerous to create Christian doctrine apart from the Bible or interpret Scripture to suit one’s preferences. The 2000 Baptist Faith & Message is a monument to faithful application of Scripture. 

The Georgia Baptist Convention likewise is faithful to God by rejecting a congregation’s mission offerings because, as in the case of First Baptist Church of Decatur, by calling a woman as pastor, the church violated a clear scriptural teaching. I am sure that church saw their action as a hospitable and accepting move in keeping with the loving spirit of Jesus. The Scripture warns against taking such liberties, to paraphrase, “there is a way that seemeth right unto man but the ends thereof are the ways of death.”

Royal E. Smith

Southlake