David Garland has served Baylor University’s Truett Theological Seminary since 1997 and is a member of First Baptist Church in Waco. From deep in the heart of one Texan, he shares his background and thoughts on Christian higher education. To suggest a Baptist General Convention of Texas-affiliated leader to be featured in this column, or to apply to be featured yourself, click here.

Background

Where else have you served, and what were your positions there?

I taught 21 years at the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary in Louisville, Ky., and was the inaugural holder of the Ernest and Mildred Hogan Professor of New Testament Interpretation.

Where did you grow up?

My parents were Canadian Baptist missionaries to India. After returning to the United States in 1946, my father was pastor of First Baptist Church in Crisfield, Md. My parents lost a child in India, and I was born in Crisfield 12 years later in 1947.

I grew up in Baltimore, Md., where my father was pastor of the First Baptist Church, founded in 1773.

How did you come to faith in Christ?

Through the witness and prayers of my grandparents who were missionaries to India, parents, assistant pastors, and faithful Sunday School teachers and Royal Ambassadors leaders.

Where were you educated, and what degrees did you receive?

I spent two years at the United States Naval Academy before belatedly heeding a call to ministry and graduating from Oklahoma Baptist University.

I earned a Master of Divinity and Ph.D. from Southern Baptist Theological Seminary and did post-graduate work at Eberhard–Karls Universität in Tübingen, Germany, and Macquarie University in Sydney, Australia.

About education

Why do you feel called into education?

I felt called to be a pastor but was asked to stay to teach at Southern Seminary after graduating with my Ph.D. It allowed my wife Diana to finish her Ph.D. at the University of Louisville. Then, I received tenure, published some books and realized perhaps this was what God intended for me to do. I also was able to teach and serve as an interim pastor to 17 churches.

What is your favorite aspect of education? Why?

I love teaching students in person—not online—and I love the opportunity and encouragement to write.

What is your favorite class to teach? Why?

I love teaching the Gospels, and I also love teaching the Pauline Epistles and Revelation.

What one aspect of education would you like to change?

I would like more emphasis to be placed on developing competency in ministry, which is not necessarily reflected by grade point average.

How has your place in education or your perspective on education changed?

I have been a professor, an associate dean and dean in a seminary; an interim provost and president of a university. Therefore, I have seen education from multiple perspectives. I absolutely am convinced, while education at schools that are not faith-based might seem luminous, it is all sound and fury.

The struggle to provide excellence in education and to remain faithful to a Christian/biblical worldview is difficult for colleges and universities, but it is imperative.

Name the three most significant challenges and/or influences facing education.

1. Cost.
2. Maintaining Christian distinctiveness for Christian schools. See what has happened in history to so many schools originally founded by Christians.
3. Perceiving education as only training for a job—a high-paying, high-status job. Education should accomplish far more than that.

What do you wish more people knew about education?

It is worth every penny spent.

If you could get one “do over” in education, what would it be, and why?

I started in engineering and went to an all-male engineering-specialty high school—Baltimore Polytechnic Institute. I wish I had the wisdom and opportunity to major in classics. It would have helped me be a better New Testament student.

What are you most pleased about from your life in education?

I am pleased my books have been translated into Korean, Spanish, Portuguese, Russian and soon in Arabic. I wonder if and how God might use them among people who live in a quite different culture.

About Baptists

Why are you Baptist?

I was born Baptist and educated by Baptists. I have become convinced from a lifetime of in-depth study of the Scriptures, what Baptists identify as Baptist distinctives are profoundly biblical.

What are the key issues facing Baptists—denominationally and/or congregationally?

1. The incursion of secular values and civil religion in churches, and the loss of evangelical fervor.
2. The danger of pride and arrogance.
3. The glorification of super-pastors.
4. The loss of a mission vision that unites Baptists of all stripes.

What would you change about the Baptist denomination—state, nation or local?

I think humans mistakenly believe if only things would change according to what they think is best, all would be well. It is a delusion, because none of us have God’s wisdom or fully grasp God’s purposes. God is in control and will use—or not use—the people called Baptist as God deems best.

About David

Who were/are your mentors, and how did/do they influence you?

My mentors were my professors at Southern Seminary. They taught me to love the Scriptures and made me want to learn to read them in the original languages, to understand their historical contexts and how to apply them to life.

Other than the Bible, name some of your favorite books or authors, and explain why.

P.G. Wodehouse. He makes me both laugh and appreciate the glories of the English language.

What is your favorite Bible verse or passage? Why?

I have no favorite verse, but I love the Gospel of Mark. I have written three books on Mark, and I enjoy its narrative subtleties that whiz by many readers and go unappreciated.

Who is your favorite person in the Bible, other than Jesus? Why?

Paul. To pick only one item from his list of hardships in 2 Corinthians 11:24–31: Who would submit to being whipped five times with 39 lashes simply to maintain his standing in the synagogue so he could continue to preach the gospel to them, except someone unswervingly committed to his calling to proclaim the gospel and to win the lost among his people? It is a saint who confesses his perseverance and all he does comes only through God’s grace that makes him sufficient.

Name something about you that would surprise people who know you.

I used to box at U.S. Naval Academy.

Dr. Ray Malone is the Texas Baptists’ director of human resources. From deep in the heart of one Texan, Malone shares his background and thoughts on the church and ministry. To suggest a Baptist General Convention of Texas-affiliated leader to be featured in this column, or to apply to be featured yourself, click here.

EDITOR’S NOTE: This interview has been edited for length and clarity.

Background

Where else have you served in ministry, and what were your positions there?

Of my 25 years in ministry, I served 12 years as a senior pastor of three churches—six years at Greater Beulah Baptist Church in Dothan, Ala.; the previous three years at Greater New Hope Baptist Church in Sherman; and before that, three years at Shiloh Baptist Church in Oakwood.

I served one year at Friendship Baptist Church of the Colony; three years as the executive pastor and director of ministerial training at The McKinney First Baptist Church in McKinney; three years as the chief of staff and director of the ministerial alliance at Praise Temple Full Gospel Baptist Church in Dallas; one year at Abundant Life Cathedral in Houston; one year at New Hope Baptist Church in Royse City; and two years at Greater Zion Baptist Church in Huntsville.

Where did you grow up?

I grew up between two cities in East Texas—Mount Vernon in my early adolescence and Fairfield in my teen years. I consider Fairfield the place where I grew up, as it’s where I learned the most about life and this crazy world we live in.

How did you come to faith in Christ?

I came to faith on my 25th birthday—July 21, 1996—when I made Christ my personal savior.

I was baptized at an early age, about 8 years old. I remember when the invitation to come to Christ was given at church, I came forward and took the pastor’s hand, and that’s when the trouble started. For the life of me, I couldn’t understand the questions.

He asked if I believed in Jesus, if I believed he died for me, and—here is the doozy—if I believed he was going to come back for me and take me to live with him. I was lost. I couldn’t understand the concept of what I was being asked, but since I was told to say, “yes,” I obeyed with little to no understanding of what I was agreeing to.

When I was 21, I suffered a career-ending knee injury while playing college football. I tore my ACL, PCL and my peroneal nerve in my knee. The ACL and PCL injuries were bad, but shredding my peroneal nerve was catastrophic. The peroneal nerve controls movement and sensation to the lower leg, foot and toes. By tearing that nerve, I instantly developed a five-degree foot drop that ultimately left me handicapped.

I knew something was tragically wrong on the ride home to my parents’ house after leaving Northwest Louisiana stadium that day. I could feel a burning sensation in my leg from mid-thigh to my lower calf. I tried to believe it was just the pain from the torn knee ligaments, but that burning sensation was so powerful. Little did I know, the burning sensation was my nerve dying.

At the time, being an athlete on scholarship was my life. Now that my football career was over, it left me in a dark place. Because I was so focused on sports, my relationship with my parents and brother suffered greatly. So, for three years, I was hurting emotionally, relationally, physically and spiritually. I needed help, but didn’t know how to ask for it. I needed peace, but didn’t know where to find it. I needed healing, but didn’t know who to talk to about it.

On my 25th birthday, I found myself sitting in the back of Greater Zion Baptist Church in Huntsville. I remember choosing to go to church that day, not for the word of God, but so I wouldn’t be lonely. I did not go to hear the word preached or to fellowship with the saints. I went, because I couldn’t talk to anyone, and I felt truly worthless. I went because being “alone” in a crowded church was so much better than being “alone” with no one close to you.

But halfway through the service, Pastor Michael C. Davis stood for altar prayer, and he said, “Just let it go!” That’s when the Holy Spirit entered my life.

Just as in the book of Acts 2:3 where there was a mighty rushing wind and tongues of cloven fire sat on the apostle, the same thing happened to me. But at that time, I never had read the book of Acts. I didn’t know about the Holy Spirit. I only knew that particular moment felt so good, it had to be God. As the tears began to fall, I surrendered my life to Christ and have been running for the Lord since.

Where were you educated, and what degrees did you receive?

I completed three years at Sam Houston State University before getting injured. Then, I left college and worked for the Texas Department of Criminal Justice for five years.

I received a Bachelor of Arts and Sciences in 1999 and a master’s degree in professional development in 2004 from Dallas Baptist University.

I received a Doctor of Theology in 2009 from Andersonville Theological Seminary in Camilla, Ga.

About ministry life

Why do you feel called into ministry?

After my experience with God, I set my heart to seek him through prayer. I was praying late morning 30 days later. I was in my bedroom on my knees, praying fervently. I began asking God what he wanted me to do, because I knew he didn’t save me just for me. I knew there was something I was to do, but I had no idea.

At that precise moment, internally it was like I was in a hot, open field with no shade, but I could see a looming storm cloud on the distant horizon. I was a bag of nerves. I wanted and needed the refreshing of the storm, but I secretly was afraid of its force. At that moment, the storm landed, and God spoke to me.

He said one word, and the word seemed to come from everything around me—the floor, the TV, the closet, even from the bed itself. It was as if everything within a 20-foot circumference spoke his voice in unison, and it said, “Preach.”

I was shocked, dumbfounded. I asked for clarity. I just had read about Gideon’s fleece (Judges 6:36-40) and how Gideon asked God to make the ground wet and the fleece dry to secure Gideon’s faith.

I asked God a second time to secure mine, repeat secretly what I had heard audibly. I just needed confirmation, to make sure I had heard correctly, and he said it a second time. That’s why I feel the call to preach—because God said it and put this fire within me that still burns to this day.

What is your favorite aspect of ministry? Why?

When I’m preaching and see the light bulb turn on in the listener’s mind. That is the moment I remember the words of Professor Cleophus Larue: “Every sermon should instruct, delight and persuade the listener to follow the directions of God.” I know if they got it, they will follow it.

What one aspect of ministry would you like to change?

Although it absolutely is correct and necessary to have sound doctrinal preaching, if I could change one aspect of ministry, it would be the inner turmoil I go through on a weekly basis to make sure I’ve crafted a sermon that pleases God and touches souls.

The biblical word “study”—crafting the sermon—I absolutely enjoy. But the emotional turmoil with its many questions—Is this point clear? How will they receive this? What happens if I start stuttering again? I’m not qualified to teach this word. What if I trip over my feet and fall flat on my face? Why would they listen to me?—are weekly visitors to my spirit.

It’s the enemy trying to dissuade me by making me feel inadequate to preach God’s word. In truth, we all are inadequate, but I know my calling to preach the gospel ultimately is secure.

What did you learn on the job you wish you learned in seminary?

Sadly, I wish I would have learned more about the venom in people’s hearts. Seminary taught me about God. Pastoring taught me about people.

While in seminary, I ruthlessly judged Moses for getting so frustrated with the people of God that he smote the rock instead of speaking to it. Now, I know why Moses struck the rock. I thank Moses for only hitting it one time, because there have been instances when I still would be beating the rock years later.

The people of God might be sheep, but sheep have very sharp teeth.

What is the impact of ministry on your family?

I would have to say ministry itself has had a very positive impact on my family. It is a blessing to know my family is saved.

However, I failed in the early years of ministry. I did not set proper boundaries for my family. Being a pastor and following God is easy for me as a person. I am committed. However, it was difficult for my family, because I wore the pastoral hat 24/7 and did not take the necessary time to be a husband, father, son or brother.

I placed the church before my family, but not God. My personal relationship with God is first and foremost in my life. Second, comes my responsibility to the household I lead. Third, comes my responsibility to the church as its pastor. Paul highlighted this principle in discussing the qualifications for church leadership: “For if a man does not know how to rule his own house, how will he take care of the church of God” (1 Timothy 3:5)?

I learned I couldn’t be pastor all the time. My wife needed a husband, my children needed a father, my parents needed a son, and my brother needed a brother. God’s main responsibility is covering the church. My main responsibility is covering my family.

How do you expect ministry to change in the next 10 to 20 years?

Our greatest giving generation is being received to Glory, and while millennials give a portion to the church, they try to dictate where those funds are given. The church must account for it. Our practices, giving measures, even our leadership has to change.

The Hispanic population will be the majority in Texas by 2040. This means the Caucasian population—the majority since the founding of this country—will be the minority, and the body of Christ must make that adjustment as well.

In my book The Joshua Dilemma, I describe how the body of Christ desperately needs properly trained mentors who must shape the next generation of leaders spiritually, so we do not repeat the mistakes of Judges 2:10—“When all that generation had been gathered to their fathers, another generation arose after them who did not know the Lord, nor the work which he had done for Israel.”

Who supports you the most in ministry?

My wife Brenda. She always has been by my side. Through the trials, troubles and tests God has placed in my path, she has been there. When I am troubled, she has an open ear. When I am frustrated, she is a soothing voice. When I am angry, she is my peace. I would not be where I am without her, and I honor her for being my wife and my best friend.

About Baptists

Why are you Baptist?

I am Baptist because of its foundation. I can be traditional Baptist, contemporary Baptist, primitive Baptist, National Baptist, Full Gospel Baptist or any other type of Baptist, and it still fits. It doesn’t really matter, because the foundation is so wide. There is room for every type of worship within the Baptist covering, and I love that.

What are the key issues facing Baptists—denominationally and/or congregationally?

We must learn to practice what we preach. The world is watching our actions and reactions, and they’re judging us ruthlessly.

For instance, the 2021 Southern Baptist Convention was televised, and much of the infighting had to deal with sexual assaults within the church, potential cover-ups of sexual abuse, issues with Resolution 9 and trying to rebuff critical race theory.

While all three of these topics do warrant attention, the spirit in which each one was addressed across the board left many things lacking, and sadly, it left us with a black eye before the world.

We must remember that being a Christian isn’t always convenient. We must be Christian, and demonstrate our Christianity even when topics, subjects and issues pop up with which we vehemently disagree. We must be an example to the world, not a cautionary exhibit for the world to see and think: “I don’t want to be part of that group. They don’t show the love of Christ among themselves.”

About Dr. Malone

Who were/are your mentors, and how did/do they influence you?

Pastor Michael C. Davis of Greater Zion Missionary Baptist Church was my first pastor and the man who birthed me into ministry. He also inspired me to seek spiritual education.

Bishop Larry Brandon of Praise Temple Full Gospel Baptist Church taught me excellence in ministry.

Pastor Roy Cotton, former director of Texas Baptists’ African American Ministries and current director of Texas Baptists’ Ambassador Program, keeps me focused and my eyes on the prize.

What is your favorite Bible verse or passage? Why?

My favorite Bible verse changes with the issues I am facing in life at a particular moment in my life. When I was young in ministry, it was Philippians 1:6—“Being confident of this very thing, that he who has begun a good work in you will complete it until the day of Jesus Christ.”

When I was dealing with various trials, it was Job 19:25-26—“For I know that my Redeemer lives, and he shall stand at last on the earth; and after my skin is destroyed, this I know, that in my flesh I shall see God.”

As of late, it’s David’s words in Psalms 37:25—“I have been young, and now am old; yet I have not seen the righteous forsaken, nor his descendants begging bread.”

Robert Creech has been a professor of pastoral leadership at Baylor University’s Truett Theological Seminary since 2009 and is a member of DaySpring Baptist Church in Waco. From deep in the heart of one Texan, he shares his background and thoughts on Christian higher education. To suggest a Baptist General Convention of Texas-affiliated leader to be featured in this column, or to apply to be featured yourself, click here.

Background

Where else have you served, and what were your positions there?

• Senior pastor, University Baptist Church in Clear Lake City, near the Johnson Space Center south of Houston, 1987 to 2009.
• Taught biblical courses and Greek, Houston Baptist University, 1979 to 1987.
• Pastor, North Main Baptist Church in Houston, 1979 to 1982.

Where did you grow up?

Houston.

How did you come to faith in Christ?

My mother took my sister and me to church—prenatally—at Glenn Rose Baptist Church in Houston. We had one pastor while I was growing up––Lee Roy Pearson. I came to Christ there through the youth ministry at age 15. A youth retreat was particularly important in causing me to want to follow Christ.

Where were you educated, and what degrees did you receive?

I graduated from Houston Baptist University in 1974 with majors in Christianity and sociology. In 1976, I received a Master of Divinity from Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary. I earned a Ph.D. in New Testament studies from Baylor University in 1984.

About education

Why do you feel called into education?

I always have had one foot in the classroom and one in the local church, shifting the weight from one foot to the other along the way. While serving as pastor at North Main Baptist Church, I also taught adjunctively at Houston Baptist University. While on the faculty at Houston Baptist, I served as interim pastor or supply preacher in a variety of congregations.

When I was at University Baptist Church, I taught adjunctively at Houston Baptist University, Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary, United Theological Seminary in Dayton, Ohio, and the Houston Graduate School of Theology.

In the dozen years I have been at Truett, I have served as interim pastor and supply preacher for churches in Texas and Arkansas. This is the form my calling has taken––serving the church and, in the classroom, helping to equip others to do so.

My original sense of calling to the classroom was to teach the Bible to freshmen students in required classes, hoping to introduce them to the beauty and value of Scripture. This was a big part of my work at Houston Baptist University. When I returned to the classroom full-time in 2009, it was to a seminary setting, where I felt called to invest in the next generation of congregational leaders.

How does being a Christian influence your work in education?

I hope my life with Christ shapes the way I relate to students and to my subject matter. I attempt to bring Christian practices—such as prayer and hospitality—into the classroom.

I like very much this prayer by J.B. Lightfoot, a 19th-century New Testament professor and Bishop of Durham, I kept taped to my desk:

“Since it hath pleased Thee, O Lord, that I should be called to take my part in the teaching of this College, grant that I may not assume the same lightly, or without a due sense of the importance of my trust; but, considering it a stewardship, whereof I shall have to render an account hereafter, may faithfully fulfil the same to Thy honour and glory. Grant, O Lord, that neither by word nor deed I may do aught that may weaken the faith, or slacken the practice of those committed to my charge; but rather grant to me such measure of Thy Holy Spirit, that my duties may be discharged to Thy honour and glory, and to the welfare of both the teacher and the taught. Grant this, O Lord, through Thy son, Jesus Christ, who is the Way, and the Truth, and the Life. Amen.”

What is your favorite aspect of education? Why?

Without question, my favorite aspect is the interaction and relationships with my students, followed by the interaction and relationships with colleagues committed to the same work.

I love the academic rhythm of working hard during the semester, getting a break at Thanksgiving or Spring Break, finishing strong, and then having time to revise the course and start over again the next semester.

I love the research and writing that is part of the calling, as well.

What one aspect of education gives you the greatest joy?

Seeing a student “get it” in the classroom or in a conversation outside of class.

What is your favorite class to teach? Why?

“The Life and Work of the Pastor” has been a favorite of mine since it touches on so many aspects of where I have spent my life and offers the opportunity to engage the next generation of pastors.

What one aspect of education would you like to change?

Were it up to me, I would eliminate grades, especially at the master’s level. I have eliminated exams from my courses.

How has your place in education or your perspective on education changed?

When I first began at Houston Baptist University, I did not see myself ever teaching in a seminary setting and supposed a career in a university and a more academic trajectory for my research and writing.

Leaving the pastorate after 22 years and moving into a seminary setting, where I taught practical theology rather than biblical studies, changed that. My research and writing has taken on a more practical approach solidly grounded in the academic training I have received.

How do you expect education to change in the next 10 to 20 years?

With COVID-19, many of us were launched into a new world of online teaching, whether we wanted to be or not. I expect multiple delivery systems will be a permanent part of the landscape of higher education.

I also anticipate we will find more creative scheduling to supplement the traditional 15-week semester—such as weekend courses, shorter courses and more connection between the classroom and the field.

We have offered a course for Truett students twice called “Nature as Spiritual Practice” on our prairie in South Texas. The course was taught by our pastor, Eric Howell, and my wife Melinda and I hosted it. More of this type of experiential learning surely is a part of education in the future.

Name the three most significant challenges and/or influences facing education.

One is cost. How long will people be willing to spend $80,000 to $100,000 for an undergraduate degree? Our seminary students often graduate with significant student debt acquired during their undergraduate and graduate education. They are not entering a workplace where they are likely to earn enough to pay off that debt easily.

We need greater partnerships between churches and the seminary to help with this, such as churches who might, as part of their salary structure, help pay off their staff members’ student loans if they stay with them for five years.

A second challenge is the issue that brick-and-mortar institutions face in competition with online institutions. Will employers care that a candidate’s degree is from a more traditional institution? How will the older model continue to compete?

Third, I would raise the issue of the diminished value of a liberal arts education in our world. Students—and their parents who are paying the bill—want to know what kind of job will await the graduate. Universities increasingly become trade schools.

The liberal arts education traditionally intended to prepare one to be a thinking, informed, contributing member of society. But majors in literature, history, religion and art play a backseat to the STEM programs and to programs in business and other professions.

What do you wish more people knew about education?

That being a university professor is a full-time job. I also wish people really could know how much most of us in this work respect and care for the students who sit in our classrooms.

What is the impact of education on your family?

We have invested heavily in education in our family. My wife Melinda holds a Bachelor of Arts degree from Houston Baptist University, a Master of Arts degree from University of Houston in Clear Lake and another from Baylor University, and a Ph.D. from Baylor University.

Our oldest son holds two degrees in architecture from the University of Houston. Our daughter holds a Bachelor of Arts degree in radio, television and film from the University of Texas. Our second son is in the military and has received his training as a part of his career in the U.S. Army Special Forces.

My wife and I were first-generation college graduates in our families. Our education has broadened our view of our world, provided us with incredible experiences we would not have had otherwise, and has introduced us to some of the most amazing people you can imagine. Our lives have been enriched incredibly by the investment in education.

What do you do outside of teaching and pastoral ministry?

My wife and I have 88 acres of family farmland about 30 miles southeast of San Antonio. We are working with a grant from Texas Parks and Wildlife to convert 80 acres to a restored prairie, providing habitat for quail, dove, turkey and deer. In 2018, we planted a mix of 40 native grasses and forbs. In this, the third year, the prairie is flourishing.

Anticipating retirement next spring, we have built a “barndominium” on the prairie with three motel-type rooms so we can host friends, family, seminary and college students for classes; pastors and professors for spiritual or writing retreats; and even total strangers who want to spend some time in creation. The building is dubbed “The Bee and the Clover” from Emily Dickenson’s poem “To Make a Prairie.”

If you could get one “do over” in education, what would it be, and why?

I spent far too little time in the library and at the feet of my teachers in college. I was so eager to graduate and get on with things, I did what I had to make my grades, but learned far less than I should have. I graduated a year early and headed for seminary.

I became a much better student at seminary, but still took too many hours to graduate a semester early. With a do-over, I would slow down and soak up more of what was so readily and graciously available to me.

About Baptists

Why are you Baptist?

I have to admit, part of the answer to that question is I was born and reared in that tradition. As an adult, however, I have the freedom to choose otherwise.

I have been tempted over the past three decades to find some other tradition with which to identify. But I share with Baptists a belief in the Bible as God’s word, a love for the local church, a commitment to a church that stands free and separate from the state, a devotion to Christ’s mission to this world, and a conviction that the call to discipleship is responded to personally. So, despite our foibles and squabbles, I am determined to hold to that heritage.

What are the key issues facing Baptists—denominationally and/or congregationally?

Currently the intense political polarization of our culture has infected Baptist congregations, as it has others. This is the biggest issue for Baptists in America, in my opinion, because it touches so many others.

It determines whether, during a pandemic, the church seeks—in love—to care for its members or—in defiance to science and common sense—ignores guidance and endangers its constituents.

It affects whether the church is obedient to the biblical mandate to care for God’s creation or rejects the notion humans have any responsibility there at all. It affects the church’s attitude and behavior toward deep human needs surrounding issues of immigration and racism.

I’m sure it extends to other areas as well. But as long as Baptists reject our heritage of a free church in a free state and align with partisan political agendas rather than agendas driven by the kingdom of God, issues such as these will continue to divide us.

What would you change about the Baptist denomination—state, nation or local?

I long for those denominational entities to maintain a missional focus rather than a doctrinal one, leaving those questions to the local church.

About Robert

Who were/are your mentors, and how did/do they influence you?

Pastorally, my childhood pastor Lee Roy Pearson at Glenn Rose Baptist Church in Houston defined for me what a pastor is, and recognized and called out my gifts. I always will be indebted to him.

Jay B. Perkins was the pastor at Hibbard Memorial Baptist Church, where I served as youth minister during my college days. He modeled loving Jesus and loving the congregation so well.

Academically, my mentors exhibited the combination of a warm heart toward God, a deep devotion to excellence in scholarship, a sacrificial love for the church, and a personal commitment to their students.

Glen T. Cain, A.O. Collins, Arthur Travis, William Hendricks, Jack MacGorman, Boo Heflin, Ray Summers, Dan McGee and Wally Christian are among those whose teaching and lives have shaped mine.

Unfortunately, it was the nature of the times that no women’s names appear in this list. I could go back to my high school days and mention several however: Judy Kahla, Neva Weeks, Muriel Flake and Mildred Fisher.

What did you learn on the job you wish you learned elsewhere?

I could have used some training on how to operate a mimeograph machine.

I learned about the nature of family systems and congregational life on the job and in the field. I would have appreciated some training about the nature of anxiety and its effects in the lives of people.

Other than the Bible, name some of your favorite books or authors, and explain why.

Wendell Berry is at the top of the list. He is an 87-year-old farmer, essayist, novelist, short-story writer and poet. I began reading his work somewhat metaphorically as a pastor, equating his love for the land and his service to it to pastoral ministry, at the suggestion of Eugene Peterson.

We inherited family property 14 years ago, and suddenly Berry’s thinking was valuable to me, literally. Berry represents a perspective called “new agrarianism,” which combines concern of ecology and sustainable agriculture. His thinking touches every dimension of human flourishing and always is challenging. The Art of the Commonplace (essays), A Place on Earth (novel), The New Collected Poems and That Distant Land (short stories) are favorite works.

Eugene Peterson has shaped my thinking about pastoral ministry more than any other single writer. I found his four core books—The Contemplative Pastor, Under the Unpredictable Plant, Five Smooth Stones for Pastoral Work and Working the Angles—in about 1992. After reading them once, I re-read one a year to keep my ministry recalibrated.

Dallas Willard became part of my favorite writers list in about 1990 when I first encountered his Spirit of the Disciplines. I already had been reading Richard Foster when I accidentally discovered the connection between the two of them. His later works—The Divine Conspiracy and Renovation of the Heart—have been especially helpful in an intentional pursuit of life with God.

What is your favorite Bible verse or passage? Why?

I repeatedly am drawn to Colossian 3:1-17 as a portrait of the Christlike life pursued communally by God’s people. If I could preach only from one biblical text, however, I think it would be the Lord’s Prayer in Matthew 6:9-13. It contains about all the biblical theology that could be distilled into five verses.

Who is your favorite person in the Bible, other than Jesus? Why?

The apostle Paul, I suppose. I have spent lots of time with him over the years. He also is someone of whom we know a good bit about his life, as well as his thinking. Both dimensions have spoken to Christians over the centuries. I have a copy of Rembrant’s Paul in Prison hanging on the wall of my study.

Name something about you that would surprise people who know you.

I once flew in the back seat of a Russian MIG trainer (L-39) with an American astronaut flying in the front seat.

Cory Hines has served as president of Howard Payne University in Brownwood since Apr. 1, 2019—no joke. From deep in the heart of one Texan, he shares his background and thoughts on leading that BGCT school. To suggest a Baptist General Convention of Texas-affiliated leader to be featured in this column, or to apply to be featured yourself, click here.

Background

Where else have you worked, and what were your positions?

I served 10 years at Dallas Baptist University in various roles, including as vice president in the areas of enrollment, advancement, graduate affairs and external affairs.

Prior to my time at DBU, I served 13 years at The Avenue Church in Waxahachie, first as minister to students and then as executive pastor.

Where did you grow up?

I grew up in Gainesville, a small town north of the Dallas-Fort Worth Metroplex.

How did you come to faith in Christ?

I was saved when I was 8 years old during Vacation Bible School at the First Baptist Church in Gainesville. I was blessed to grow up in a home with two godly parents who talked about faith regularly. So, it was natural for me to realize Christ loved me and sacrificed himself to pay my debt of sin and usher me into a relationship with my Creator.

Where were you educated, and what degrees did you receive?

I graduated from Howard Payne University in May 1997 with a Bachelor of Arts in Christian education, Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary in 2000 with a Master of Arts in Christian education, and Dallas Baptist University in 2012 with a Doctor of Philosophy in leadership.

About academic leadership

Why do you feel called to academic leadership?

I feel called to serve as president of Howard Payne University due to the transformational experience I had as a student here 25 years ago. I feel strongly the Lord called me here so I could be used by him to guide HPU to be a place where students can understand who they are in Christ, what he has called them to do, and how they can use their vocational calling to make a kingdom impact.

Tell us about Howard Payne University—its work, mission, measures of scope, etc.

On June 29, 1889, delegates from the Pecan Valley Baptist Association decided to establish the college that would become Howard Payne University. Classes began on Tuesday, Sept. 16, 1890.

Since that time, we have been dedicated to preparing graduates who will leave our campus and make a positive impact on society, producing over 17,000 of those graduates over the last 130 years. We have more than 100 majors, minors and pre-professional programs.

The Guy D. Newman Honors Academy is a unique program here at HPU, exploring the nature and meaning of both citizenship and leadership from a variety of perspectives, including and in light of our Christian faith and the greatest traditions of the American system.

What do you like best about leading Howard Payne? Why?

It is hard to say what I like best, but working with our board of trustees to reimagine HPU to become what it needs to be is thrilling. I love meeting new students and their families on move-in day, and celebrating with them.

Also, nothing beats a graduation ceremony and the opportunity to dream with our graduates how the Lord will use them in the days ahead for his glory.

What aspect(s) of HPU and/or its mission do you wish more people understood?

I wish more people could see the deep commitment of our employees to do all they can to provide a transformational type of student experience.

How do you expect HPU and/or its mission to change in the next 10 to 20 years?

HPU’s mission must not change, as the world needs more graduates like those we are aspiring to produce. We are committed to developing students who have the critical thinking skills, rooted in their faith, they need to face the world with discernment. Upon graduation, we hope they have the values, relationship skills and personal confidence to navigate and lead in a complex world where diverse points of view are a constant.

About Cory

Tell us about your family.

My wife Melinda and I have been married 24 years. We have two children: Mackenzie (19) and Caleb (16).

Why are you Baptist?

I am Baptist due to our core beliefs. I hold high the priesthood of the believer and the autonomy of the local church. In addition, I like how our cooperative nature as Baptists allows us to do more together than we could individually.

Who were/are your mentors, and how did/do they influence you?

Two of my mentors are Gary Cook and Brent Gentzel. I’ve known Dr. Gentzel for almost 30 years, and over that time, he has pushed me by investing in me intentionally, by asking good questions and by modeling strong Christian leadership.

Dr. Cook has modeled what an active prayer life can look like, and how consistent servant leadership over the long haul can shape an institution to be more than anyone could hope or imagine.

Other than the Bible, name some of your favorite books or authors, and explain why.

I love reading Donald Miller’s books on marketing. Chip and Dan Heath’s writing on organizational change, leadership and culture always is challenging.

The 4 Disciplines of Execution by Chris McChesney, Jim Huling and Sean Covey helps to focus on the things necessary to execute on strategy. The New Gold Standard by Joseph Michelli is a great book, as is Start With Why by Simon Sinek.

What is your favorite Bible verse or passage? Why?

I love Ephesians 2:10 because of its alignment with the calling God has placed on my life. I dream of HPU becoming a place known to help students understand they are God’s workmanship, created in him to do good works he has prepared for them.

Who is your favorite person in the Bible, other than Jesus? Why?

I think Noah is probably my favorite right now. I love his faithful obedience to do what God called him to do, and to faithfully follow the plan God gave him. I imagine there were days he did not want to work on the ark, or days he might have questioned if he heard God correctly, but he was diligent and faithful, and God did what only God could do.

Name something about you that would surprise people who know you well.

I was on ESPN’s SportsCenter in fall 1997.

Dr. Fritz Williams is the pastor of First Baptist Church in Lockhart and is part of the core faculty at Stark College and Seminary. From deep in the heart of one Texan, he shares his background and thoughts on the church and ministry. To suggest a BGCT-affiliated minister to be featured in this column, or to apply to be featured yourself, click here.

Background

Where else have you served, and what were your positions there?

I served as youth minister, assistant to the pastor, and minister to young adults and seniors at Antioch Missionary Baptist Church in San Antonio.

I taught private and public school—five years at Antioch Christian Academy and three years in the San Antonio Independent School District as a middle school science teacher.

The also taught at Guadalupe Bible College and Wayland Baptist University.

Where did you grow up?

The “Barbecue Capital of Texas,” Lockhart is my place of birth and where I was raised.

How did you come to faith in Christ?

When I was 5, my home church had Vacation Bible School, and the teacher gave the invitation in the classroom. I went to the front of the class and declared I wanted to accept Christ and be baptized. She immediately called the pastor in, for they felt since I was so young I was not ready.

Reflecting on the experience now, I understand their concern with a 5-year-old giving a confession of faith. The pastor took me aside and counseled me and asked me questions for two days until he determined this young man is special to God, and we can’t hinder his confession of faith and baptism. The following Sunday I was baptized and welcomed into the family of God.

Where were you educated, and what degrees did you receive?

• Lockhart Independent School District, K-12.
• Angelo State University, Bachelor of Science in kinesiology.
• Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary, Master of Divinity in biblical languages.
• United Theological Seminary in Dayton, Ohio, Doctor of Ministry.

About education

Why do you feel called into education?

Education for me is an extension of my call to preach and pastor. The teaching setting in education provides a greater opportunity for me to give back to humanity and community what Christ has entrusted to me, through human transparency to be his servant to all humanity. It is the gathering of all my human experience to be transparent in an environment that often fosters non-transparency and idol-isolation.

I believe the educator must not omit that transformation begins with transparency.

How does being a Christian influence your work in education?

What influences my work in education is the same as in pastoring—the opportunity to be a witness to the great things God has done and is doing in the expanse of his creation, as well as a mentor or encouraging voice to those in need.

What is your favorite aspect of education? Why?

My favorite aspect of education is being in a spiritual and social environment where the student and teacher have opportunities to connect in an academic setting and communicate on a higher level of learning, and share praxis to gain an enriching and encouraging experience for the benefit of the (Christian) community.

What one aspect of education gives you the greatest joy?

Looking at the faces and listening to the responses of students when they are at a point of challenge and when revelation or illumination connects with human understanding of the subject matter being taught—when the divine connects with humanity.

What is your favorite class to teach? Why?

I enjoy teaching hermeneutics—biblical interpretation—and preaching. I also enjoy when there is an opportunity to teach Black church history or Black church ministry.

What one aspect of education would you like to change?

The one-size-fits-all model or perspective on education.

The inclusion of African American and Mexican/Latino church history or experience from a historical-cultural perspective, regardless of the majority of the student population. I believe these histories need to be included to provide a greater contribution of the races and their culture.

The tragedy of the educational system is the omission of the greater contributions of other people groups within history. We possibly would discover other models that would benefit the educational system.

How has your place in education or your perspective on education changed?

Examining my place and perspective in education as an African American has its challenges, but with a balanced mindset, I’ve overcome some challenges. Many of those challenges have been based upon race and capacity: Is he or she capable of communicating, analyzing and performing like the perceived dominant culture?

The major one is: We were looking at another candidate, but he or she was not interested in the position. So, we hired you.

Competition and comparison are ingrained in the American psyche, but I wish it would change in the educational environment. There are many underappreciated, intelligent and talented people who would do well in higher education if that model wasn’t negative to creative people who have the knowledge base and the credentials.

How do you expect education to change in the next 10 to 20 years?

I hope, with the growing shift in the current and upcoming generations, for education to remain a necessity. I expect to see higher education, especially in theology, retain a Christ-centered focus and a standard of excellence for Christian theology and ministry in America.

Technology will play a pivotal role, but we must be interdisciplinary in creating a learning environment via the classroom experience.

Name the three most significant challenges and/or influences facing education.

1. Race.
2. Historical-cultural identity of minorities.
3. Apologetics.

What do you wish more people knew about education?

Education is the key to greater opportunities, and you are never too old to obtain an education. Education may be expensive at some institutions, but there are many accredited, affordable and accessible institutions.

What is the impact of education on your family?

We have been fortunate as a family to have elders who encouraged us to get our education. On my mother’s side of the family, we had great-uncles who reminded us of the sacrifice their parents made during a time when it was extremely difficult for Blacks to get a higher education. These uncles told us if they did it, then it is very important for each one of us to get an education to have a better life. Repeating these stories inspired us to go for it.

My parents continued to do the same for my sister and me. While we do have family members with bachelor and master’s degrees, my sister and I are the only family members I know of with terminal degrees. Because of these influences and family impact, I now have children with bachelors and master’s degrees.

About Baptists

Why are you Baptist?

When I was a young, a well-aged pastor stood and said, “I’m a Baptist because Jesus was a Baptist, and John was, too.”

Too funny, right, but I believe in the Baptist model, baptism upon confession, and fulfilling and living out the Great Commission.

What are the key issues facing Baptists—denominationally and/or congregationally?

The Southern Baptist Convention must settle the issues of race, especially with African Americans, and the convention’s negative views toward critical race theory.

Our churches, congregationally, need to plan for succession, and develop the young adults and youth to know the foundational practices and the importance of the practices for the sustaining of the church and Baptist heritage.

What would you change about the Baptist denomination—state, nation or local?

Where do I start, and how could I end? Church polity and autonomy as the Baptist way of life, while it has been a strength for us, also could be our greatest weakness. While some do maintain loyalty to the convention when it comes to structure and issues, we could benefit or learn from other denominational models to create a more viable experience in Baptist life.

About Dr. Williams

Who were/are your mentors, and how did/do they influence you?

The Apostle Paul shared with Timothy one of his greatest mentors was his grandmother. The late Esther Thompson was my grandmother. She provided a foundational experience for her grandchildren when we spent the summer “in the country.” She and my grandfather made sure we had a solid Christian foundation. She made sure, like our parents, we went to Sunday school with her at the little country church for which her father—our great-grandfather—provided the land. She sang hymns and prayed over us to put us to sleep at night, and taught us Bible verses.

My parents both pressed upon me the necessity of being a good person and Christian example. I remember my father, who was and is still a deacon, took me as a boy to help out the elderly and those needing assistance with daily living.

Another influence was the late Pastor Earl Jackson Sr. He and his late wife were my godparents. He was my childhood pastor and always shared his wisdom in a practical and applicable way. He was an outstanding preacher and gave me great sermonic advice when I began preaching.

The late Rev. Dr. E. Thurman Walker pastored the Antioch Missionary Baptist Church and hired me three weeks after I joined the church. He told me he loved my spirit, and I had a way of connecting with people, especially the youth. He felt God telling him to hire me as the youth minister. This began the development of a 20-year relationship, as he entrusted me with being creative in ministry and exposing the youth to new experiences in Christ, as well as providing an opportunity to grow my ministerial capacity. He always said to me and other ministers, “Your gift will make room for you.”

Pastor T. L. Garner Jr. influenced me to use the gift God gave me and not worry about the cultural norms in preaching and serving. He constantly said: “Be respectful of the elders, but don’t allow no one to underestimate you and the gift God has given you. And when you get the opportunity, you must always be ready and bring it!”

Dr. Harry Hunt, my Old Testament professor, and Dr. William Tillman were my greatest academic influence at Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary. They displayed the grace of God to me as a human being, as well as an African American in the seminary environment.

Other than the Bible, name some of your favorite books or authors, and explain why.

• The History and Heritage of African American Churches by L.H. Welchel Jr.
• The Cross and the Lynching Tree and God of the Oppressed by James Cone.
• Jesus and the Disinherited by Howard Thurman.
• My Moral Odyssey and The Certain Sound of the Trumpet by Samuel DeWitt Proctor.
• Doctrine that Dances by Robert Smith.

There are a few more, but these books have served as a foundation for personal and professional development and focus.

What is your favorite Bible verse or passage? Why?

Psalm 62:1-2. God alone is my salvation, my protector and my stability.

Who is your favorite person in the Bible, other than Jesus? Why?

I have two favorite people in the Bible: Jeremiah, for he prophesied the message of God under extreme circumstances, but still held true to his call; and Peter, who although viewed unnecessarily with great scrutiny, stands bold—despite failure—to lead and preach the gospel of Christ.

Name something about you that would surprise people who know you.

I love hunting, but I can’t stand snakes.

Mike Miller has been the senior pastor of Central Baptist Church in Jacksonville since 2017. From deep in the heart of one Texan, he shares his background and thoughts on the church and ministry. To suggest a BGCT-affiliated minister to be featured in this column, or to apply to be featured yourself, click here.

Background

Where else have you served in ministry, and what were your positions there?

• Church planter and pastor, Shannon Creek Baptist Church in Burleson, 1993–1997. This is where I earned the distinction as world’s worst church planter.
• Pastor, First Baptist Church in Easton, Md., 1997–2003.
• Pastor, McElwain Baptist Church in Birmingham, Ala., 2003–2008.
• Senior pastor, First Baptist Church in Kenner, La., 2008–2016.
• Associate professor of expository preaching, New Orleans Baptist Theological Seminary, 2011–2017. I also served as campus pastor 2011–2015.

Where did you grow up?

Odessa, Texas.

How did you come to faith in Christ?

I was not raised in church. When I was 12, I had a terrifying experience while attending church with some friends. Essentially, I was told since I was not able to speak in tongues—I begged God to let me speak in tongues—it probably was too late for me, and I would go to hell. This experience planted a seed in my heart that grew into a deep and thorough hatred for all churches and Christians. I swore I never would attend another church.

Then I met Terri. I was head over heels in love. So, when she invited me to church to hear her sing on Easter Sunday 1987, I eagerly attended. On that day, age 21, I heard the Easter story for the first time. Until that day, I thought Easter was a Hallmark holiday about bunnies and eggs. I didn’t realize it at the time, but the Holy Spirit began drawing me to Jesus.

A couple of months later, I graduated college and began attending church regularly. Interestingly, this was not a church that taught or believed the Bible, but the Holy Spirit was at work. Sensing something was missing in my life, I went to see the pastor, and he shared the gospel with me. On that day, sometime in September 1987, I gave my life to Jesus. I was 22.

Where were you educated, and what degrees did you receive?

• Bachelor of Science in professional aviation, Louisiana Tech University, 1987.
• Master of Divinity with biblical languages, Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary, 1995.
• Doctor of Ministry in expository preaching, Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, 2002.
• Master of Theology, New Orleans Baptist Theological Seminary, 2009.
• Ph.D. in Preaching with a minor in New Testament, New Orleans Baptist Theological Seminary, 2011.

About ministry life

Why do you feel called into ministry?

The story begins before my conversion. However, almost immediately after coming to Christ, I began sensing the Lord calling me to some kind of public ministry—speaking or preaching. At the same time, people in the church suggested they saw in me the gifts necessary for pastoral ministry. I had skills in leadership, communication and interpersonal relations. Nevertheless, I was firmly opposed to the idea of vocational ministry.

I had invested a great deal in my career as a professional pilot, and I was not willing to give that up. However, the Holy Spirit started stripping away my career ambitions and firming up the notion I should go to seminary and prepare for pastoral ministry.

I do believe this is my calling, because of my skill sets, but also because I find tremendous joy and satisfaction in being a pastor. Though some days and seasons are hard and even painful, I know I am doing what God has called and equipped me to do.

What is your favorite aspect of ministry? Why?

Preaching. I love preaching. Eric Liddell, the Olympic runner depicted in Chariots of Fire, once said, “When I run, I feel [God’s] pleasure.” Well, when I preach, I feel his pleasure. I like a lot about my ministry, and I love sermon preparation. But when I stand to preach, I sense the anointing of God.

What one aspect of ministry gives you the greatest joy?

People. The truth is people can be the sources of our greatest pains and frustrations, but I love the local church. I love the idea of it. I love Central Baptist Church. I love it because it is truly a community of sinners redeemed by the blood of Jesus. We love each other, care for each other and walk through life together. I really love people.

What one aspect of ministry would you like to change?

Unrealistic expectations. While this isn’t overwhelming most of the time, not only do I place unattainable expectations on myself, but the reality is people frequently expect more from us than we can deliver. And this goes both ways. I think as pastors, we sometimes expect more from our church members than is reasonable. We should probably all cut each other more slack.

How has your ministry or your perspective on ministry changed?

Early on, I think I saw people as the means to an end. I needed more people—and more people being committed—if I was going to lead the church to do what I thought it should do. I’ve come to see people as my mission and ministry.

My goal is not merely to get the people to do. It is to get them to be. Instead of convincing them to get on board with the vision, I need to point them to Jesus, their only hope. I’m not sure if this makes sense, but basically, more than anything I want people to seek, know and love Jesus. That is the end game. And of course, if people really seek, know and love Jesus, the mission and ministry are much more natural.

How do you expect ministry to change in the next 10 to 20 years?

As “regular church attendance” is now considered—by statisticians and pollsters—to be attending once a month, as opposed to once a week, we continually need to rethink how to engage our church members for the purpose of making disciples.

In an increasingly post-Christian world, cultural Christianity is on the decline. I actually think this is a good thing, even if it is painful. We will continue to lose those members and attenders who are present for nothing more than whatever cultural pressures they face. I believe we will need to focus more on deeper and more intentional discipleship, since those involved will be more and more serious about their faith. The good news is we will be deeper and more intentional with our discipleship.

Because of the increasing spotlight on very public scandals—sex abuse, pastoral moral failings and other issues—to have credibility, churches will need to operate with more transparency and accountability than ever before. This too will be painful for some, but it will be positive in the long run.

Name the three most significant challenges and/or influences facing your ministry.

1. Social media. While social media can be a wonderful tool for outreach and connection, it also is proving to be a means of disseminating rumors, discontent and anger. I don’t think church problems are any different fundamentally than they ever have been, but they are more public than ever. Learning how to deal with and manage people airing grievances with church and spreading false information is becoming more of a challenge every day.

2. Christian nationalism. While our church has managed to stay mostly out of the fray, people increasingly are equating their political positions and/or levels of patriotism with Christianity. I see this on both the right and left extremes, and it is difficult to navigate as a pastor to keep the focus on the Great Commission.

3. Outrage culture. People consistently are mad at someone. Because of either political allegiances or theological camps, many see anyone who disagrees on any matter as what Alan Jacobs calls a “repugnant cultural other.” Currently the enemy is anyone who is different. When our politics infiltrate the church, and when everyone has social media, the Great Commandment becomes forgotten. It’s hard to encourage people to see all other people as image-bearers of God and to treat everyone with dignity and respect.

What do you wish more laypeople knew about ministry or, specifically, your ministry?

I suppose the biggest thing they don’t realize is the ever-present immense pastoral burden. We don’t necessarily work harder than our church members, but we carry a spiritual burden that would be crushing were it not for the sustaining grace of Jesus and the empowering of the Holy Spirit. What I mean is we carry with us at all times what Paul calls “the daily pressure on me of my anxiety for all the churches” (2 Corinthians 11:28).

When marriages fail, when people sin, when church members are upset, we take it personally. We have a constant awareness of our accountability for the spiritual condition of our church members and the health of our churches. We grieve when we fail. We never are satisfied with the quality of our work. It’s impossibly hard all the time. But since this drives us to our knees, we also experience the indescribable blessing of the presence and strength of Jesus to see us through.

What did you learn on the job you wish you learned in seminary?

I am a huge believer in the value of seminary education, but much of this job is learned by experience. I will say there are somethings I wish I had known.

• The weight of the pastoral burden I mentioned earlier. It’s real, and if you aren’t walking with Jesus, it will kill you.
• The effect of critics. I didn’t know they would be so plentiful or so mean. I also didn’t know how much it would hurt.
• The importance of your personal walk with Jesus and how hard it would be to maintain. We can think sermon prep is sufficient time in God’s word, but it is not.
• How cruel people can be to your family. I guess I will never understand it, but this is the one thing that has caused me more pain than anything.
• That when you visit people in the hospital, they want to show you things you really don’t want to see. The struggle is real.

If you could get one “do over” in ministry, what would it be, and why?

I guess the biggest is I would completely redo the way I planted the church that was my first pastorate. I didn’t actually plant a church. We baptized about 200 people in four years and saw God do great things, but it all was centered on me.

I didn’t really make disciples. I didn’t train leaders; I was hardly a leader. I didn’t implement any systems or processes. I really had no strategy. Consequently, when I left, the ministry imploded. This wasn’t just because I left, but also because what I left in no way was healthy. It never had a chance.

What is the impact of ministry on your family?

Overall, it has been positive. I have been able to put them first without much pushback at all—which I understand is not the case for all pastors—and we have stayed close to each other and to Jesus most of the time. However, the cruelty some have shown to my wife and kids has left scars—on me as much as them.

What is the most important advice you would give someone just going into ministry?

Your primary ministry is in your home. Scott Sharman told me when I entered seminary, “It’s OK to get Cs at seminary as long as you get As at home.” He was right, and I took that advice all through my ministry. I can be replaced at church. I cannot be replaced as husband to Terri or dad to Bryan, Bailey and Michael.

About Baptists

Why are you Baptist?

I became a Baptist by accident. But now, I am Baptist convictionally. I am Southern Baptist by conviction. This is for three reasons:

1. Our theology. In addition to our alignment with historical orthodoxy, we hold to evangelical distinctives—I see the Bebbington quadrilateral as helpful here—and believers baptism.

2. Our Baptist distinctives, such as a track record of championing religious liberty for all, a from-the-ground-up denominational structure, and a commitment to local church autonomy and congregational governance grounded in the priesthood of all believers.

3. This is the real genius of the Southern Baptist Convention. We do more together than we ever could do separately. Our voluntary cooperation for the sake of the Great Commission is unparalleled, and I am deeply committed to the Cooperative Program and to our cooperative efforts on the local, state and national levels.

I think most Baptist laypersons aren’t fully aware of what it means to be a Baptist. If they did, they would have stronger convictions regarding religious liberty for all, separation of church and state, local church autonomy, and cooperation for the sake of reaching the world for Jesus.

What are the key issues facing Baptists—denominationally and/or congregationally?

Sex abuse. This is a scandal that has plagued our denomination—and others—for far too long. It is past time we listen to survivors and implement real reforms to eradicate this blight on our churches.

Racism. Contrary to what some seem to think, racism is alive and well in some corners of our denomination. We must move past talking about racism to reconciling to one another as a result of and for the sake of the gospel.

Pharisaism. I am terribly concerned secondary and tertiary issues are being treated as primary issues. Moreover, the open hostility of those who would seek to draw our tent pegs so tight even millions of committed Baptists no longer are welcome is a terrific threat to our future.

What would you change about the Baptist denomination—state, nation or local?

For one thing, I think we need a renewed focus and commitment to local associations. That is where cooperation begins and where most of the work and fellowship happens.

For another, I would love to see only one state convention in the state of Texas. My closest friends in ministry pastor churches in both the Baptist General Convention of Texas and the Southern Baptists of Texas Convention. We get along so well and believe the same things, and we all lament the division in our state.

About Mike

Who were/are your mentors, and how did/do they influence you?

Bailey Stone was my pastor. He baptized me and my wife—we came from another denomination—and influenced us both in incalculable ways. We even named our daughter after him. Bailey was the pastor of First Baptist Church in Odessa, and then the director of evangelism for the BGCT. He instilled in me a passion for the Bible and evangelism, and he showed me how to love people different than me.

Frankie Rainey was a local pastor in Burlseon and a Greek and New Testament professor at Howard Payne University and Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary. When I was a young pastor, I would sit in his office every week, and while going through the Greek New Testament together, we would talk about life and ministry. I learned so much about being a pastor and a scholar from him.

Joe McKeever is a retired pastor and director of missions. He is still a wonderful friend and mentor. Joe helps me process difficult things I’m going through, and he has shaped my preaching by teaching me so much about connecting through storytelling. He is my main go-to guy when I need to talk or need some counsel.

Other than the Bible, name some of your favorite books or authors, and explain why.

C. Sproul is my favorite author. I especially like The Holiness of God. His love for God drips from every page and helps me love God more.

John Piper’s Desiring God has been formative for me in orienting my life to the pursuit of joy in Christ and nothing else.

Martyn Lloyd-Jones’ Preaching and Preachers shaped my high view of expository preaching more than anything.

Richard Baxter’s The Reformed Pastor greatly influenced how I view the high calling and responsibility of pastoral ministry.

What is your favorite Bible verse or passage? Why?

2 Corinthians 5:21. “For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.” This is the “Great Exchange”—our sin for his righteousness. I know of no other verse that encapsulates the effect of the gospel as well as this one.

2 Corinthians 8:18 speaks of “the brother who is famous among all the churches of his preaching of the gospel.” I love this. Who is the guy? We don’t know. We know his message, but we don’t know his name. I want to be that guy. I want people to know my message—the gospel—but not my name.

Name something about you that would surprise people who know you.

I am terrified of heights. I get wobbly above the second rung on a ladder. Since I am a pilot, people usually are surprised by this. But as I tell them, you can fall off a ladder, but you can’t fall off an airplane.

Kenneth Hugghins recently retired after more than 30 years as the pastor of Elkins Lake Baptist Church in Huntsville. From deep in the heart of one Texan, he shares his background and thoughts on the church and ministry. To suggest a BGCT-affiliated minister to be featured in this column, or to apply to be featured yourself, click here.

Background

Where else have you served in ministry, and what were your positions there?

• First Baptist Church in Coolidge as part-time music and youth minister.
• First Baptist Church in Seagoville as part-time youth minister, then full-time associate minister.
• Eastfield College in Dallas as part-time Baptist student minister.
• Texas Christian University as an adjunct in the undergraduate program.
• First Baptist Church in Abilene as full-time minister to young adults.

Where did you grow up?

I lived in Houston, Fort Worth, twice in Denver and four years in Los Angeles by the time I was 12 years old. From eighth grade to high school graduation, I lived in southeast Houston near Hobby Airport.

How did you come to faith in Christ?

I grew up in a family of faith and active church involvement. So, a commitment to Christ came rather naturally at age 9. Thankfully, I had a tremendous youth minister in Houston who guided me in continued growth as a Christian.

Where were you educated, and what degrees did you receive?

• Baylor University, Bachelor of Arts in sociology and social work
• Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary, Master of Divinity and Ph.D. in New Testament.

About ministry life

Why do you feel called into ministry?

The answer has changed over the course of my life. Short answer: I sensed my talents could be used to serve God’s people in church and schools.

What is your favorite aspect of ministry? Why?

I enjoy preaching, teaching and creative worship planning. I especially enjoy conversations that encourage or stretch folks—and me.

What one aspect of ministry gives you the greatest joy?

I always have enjoyed helping people feel affirmed as they are and to feel free to relate to me as a normal person, not just as “the preacher.”

What one aspect of ministry would you like to change?

In the years I have been in ministry, I always felt the pressure—rightly or wrongly—to “grow the organization.” The alternative approach would be to grow the spiritual health of the members, but I’ll grant I wasn’t always sure how to do that beyond preaching, teaching, and pastoral ministry and conversations.

How has your ministry or your perspective on ministry changed?

I would put much more emphasis on spiritual formation or, as it once was called, discipleship. I would spend more time with a semi-structured approach to ground people in a relationship with Christ through small groups.

How do you expect ministry to change in the next 10 to 20 years?

I have no idea how things will change. That’s why I enjoy teaching in seminaries the ministers who will deal with the changes. We can, at least, ground them in solid and creative Scripture study and theology.

I do think culture in the United States is tilting against a Christian worldview. So, the church may not enjoy the “taken for granted” acceptance it once did.

I think ministry should change in a few ways: (1) greater emphasis on affirming people in the culture around us wherever they are spiritually, rather than viewing them as in or out, or for or against us; (2) greater emphasis on personal spiritual growth in and through Christian community for the specific purpose of showing a different way of living together than is common outside of Christian community; (3) focus on cultivating a Christian worldview beyond the surface culture wars, both to inform the lives of believers and to present a coherent Christian apologetic to the issues and challenges of the 21st century. Of course, each of these deserves vast expansion and discussion, but the statements are a good catalyst to begin.

Name the three most significant challenges and/or influences facing your ministry.

The greatest challenge in my later years has been consumer culture often expressed in generational expectations in worship, preaching style, ministry priorities and otherwise. Add to that the politicization of Christian faith in the United States. These are strong and divisive forces challenging churches.

What do you wish more laypeople knew about ministry or, specifically, your ministry?

So many issues or interpretations have more than one perspective. The willingness to talk together about challenging issues doesn’t mean I or leadership think the church should go one way or the other. Conversation is necessary to honor each of the members in the fellowship. “The first act of love is to listen.”

What did you learn on the job you wish you learned in seminary?

Administration, but I don’t think I would have recognized the need as much then. And I certainly don’t have the natural aptitude.

What is the impact of ministry on your family?

I am so fortunate to have been in a church that didn’t put pressure on my family to fit a certain mold. My two children grew up in Huntsville. So, this was the only church they’d known until they left for college.

I have a wise, patient and wonderful wife. The church and other ministry were priority for my time—my dad was a workaholic; so, I learned that model—but my wife and kids rolled with it pretty well.

I continually say I am so grateful my children still love God and don’t hate the church.

About Baptists

Why are you Baptist?

My mother told me we were Baptist, because “they are closest to the Bible.” She said if we weren’t Baptist, we’d probably be Disciples of Christ.

I detect strong leanings toward congregational government. I always have valued the Baptist focus on Scripture as the primary source for beliefs, as well as for worship and individual lives. I also value congregational organization—as awkward as it can be.

What are the key issues facing Baptists—denominationally and/or congregationally?

One major threat is the hyper-individualism of our culture and in our Baptist ethos. In both society and Baptist life, such a focus on the individual’s rights can lead to the drama and tribalism seen in both society and Baptist life. I think we need to recover a humble recognition of the biblical goal of community, while maintaining respect for each individual conscience and conviction.

Even a cursory awareness of church and Baptist history can demonstrate many “convictions” often are not as significant as the holder thinks. Continuing conversation—personally, in educational institutions, books and publications like the Baptist Standard—is important for understanding and cooperation.

I also think we need a healthier understanding of salvation as justification and sanctification. Process is an important part of beginning and continuing with Jesus.

What would you change about the Baptist denomination—state, nation or local?

I would like to see a broader ease with varied perspectives, spiritual gifts and motivations. I would like to see our populism better informed by the grace that awareness—education—can bring. It would be great if we could enjoy the community of grace we are given around the Lord Jesus, even as we talk about challenging and personal issues.

About Kenneth

Who were/are your mentors, and how did/do they influence you?

My single most important mentor was my youth minister at Park Place Baptist Church in Houston. Don Sims was just out of seminary, and he poured himself into a group of students. He grounded us in spiritual practices, and trained and allowed us to do ministry through mission trips, camps, youth revivals, music, preaching and just clowning around with other youth groups. There are many members of that group who are in ministry of all kinds today.

My pastor at that time, Presnall Wood, was also a significant influence. His steady, wise and gracious approach to preaching and pastoral ministry have shaped much of my approach today.

I’ve been saying lately I need to make a collection of the sayings, wisdom and witticisms that have shaped me over the years. Those two would be cited many times.

Other than the Bible, name some of your favorite books or authors, and explain why.

• Frederick Buechner’s theological freshness and creativity literally snuck up on me and set me free to imagine with Scripture.
• Brennan Manning’s overwhelming emphasis on grace informed by broad reading and hard living.
• Richard Foster and Dallas Willard. Foster reconnected my scholasticism with ancient spiritual disciplines. Willard provided a well-reasoned vision of the purpose of the Christian life.
• F.F. Bruce, Craig Blomberg, Craig Keener, Scot McKnight and N.T. Wright are scholars with a love for Scripture and are committed to understanding Scripture on its own terms in its original culture.

What is your favorite Bible verse or passage? Why?

Philippians 1:6. I discovered it as a Baptist Student Union summer missionary in 1973. I appreciate its assurance of God’s faithfulness to complete what he started in me. I later understood the “you” to be plural, which only underscores God’s work in me, while personal, always is done through and for a group of believers.

Who is your favorite person in the Bible, other than Jesus? Why?

John the Apostle, for his insights into Jesus, his creativity in telling the story, and his emphasis on love for each other.

Name something about you that would surprise people who know you.

I really like my Harley Davidson.

EDITOR’S NOTE: You also might be surprised to know Kenneth was part of Loveship, which performed a parody of a Dr. Hook & The Medicine Show song. You can hear it here.

Jimmy Dorrell stays busy. He has been engaged in ministry, education and community development in Waco for 28 years. He also has written four books on the church and Christian community development. From deep in the heart of one Texan, he shares his background and thoughts on the church and ministry. To suggest a Baptist General Convention of Texas-affiliated leader to be featured in this column, or to apply to be featured yourself, click here.

Background

Where do you currently serve, and how long have you been there?

• Senior pastor of Church Under the Bridge in Waco, 28 years.
• Co-founder and executive director of Mission Waco/Mission World, 28 years; president emeritus, two years.
• Helped establish the Texas Christian Community Development Network in 2011; president emeritus, three years.
• Adjunct professor at Baylor University and Truett Theological Seminary, 28 and 20 years, respectively.
• Teaching Christian community development courses for churches and nonprofit organizations in Texas, Louisiana and Oklahoma.

Where else have you served in ministry, and what were your positions there?

• Highland Baptist Church in Waco, youth director, 1969 to 1975.
• West Memorial Baptist Church in Houston; youth, college and singles minister; 1979 to 1982. This was an important season of ministry for me to be a part of a nontraditional church with Ralph Neighbour Jr., doing cell groups in the Houston culture in the late 1970s and early 80s.

Where did you grow up?

Conroe, Texas.

How did you come to faith in Christ?

I accepted Christ in the First Baptist Church of Conroe around age 10.

Where were you educated, and what degrees did you receive?

• Baylor University, Bachelor of Arts in Religion in 1972 and a master’s in environmental studies in 1993.
• Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary, Master of Divinity, 1978.
• Eastern Baptist Theological Seminary in Philadelphia, Doctor of Ministry. My doctoral project was on renewal of the church for mission.

About ministry life

Why do you feel called into ministry?

As a teenager active in my home church, I sensed God’s leading toward full-time ministry and chose to go to Baylor to study religion. Throughout my life, I have experienced the Holy Spirit’s guidance step-by-step to that call toward the renewal of the church and compassion toward the poor, marginalized and unchurched. Many of those confirmations happened through personal experiences, jobs, education and global travel among the poor. In particular, the biblical principles of Christian community development to empower the poor and marginalized have convicted my call.

What is your favorite aspect of ministry? Why?

Moving into an under-resourced, African American neighborhood 44 years ago changed our lives and our worldview of how to build relationships across cultural and racial barriers. It made the gospel come alive and continued to redefine what New Testament church and ministry meant. Added to the local context, our work in Haiti, Mexico City and India also expanded our compassion for the unreached and extremely poor, and caused us to be global Christians.

What one aspect of ministry gives you the greatest joy?

The privilege to lead and serve a very diverse, multiracial, economically varied, creative, genuine and challenging body of Christ is so joyful. It causes me to use so many of the gifts and lessons God has given me all these years.

What one aspect of ministry would you like to change?

My heart is for the renewal of the church for God’s mission. As the Western church loses ground, my disappointment is the lack of honest congregational examination, brokenness and change that is occurring. I deeply desire the Spirit’s leadership for new wineskins in American churches.

What did you learn on the job you wish you learned in seminary?

While I cherish my seminary training as a foundation of biblical training, I have learned most of the skills needed for our unique ministry among the poor and unchurched outside of seminary, though learning under Ray Bakke at Eastern Seminary was profoundly impacting.

What is the impact of ministry on your family?

Since the majority of my children’s lives were shaped by living in a poor and multiracial neighborhood and by attending a church under a bridge, their values are significantly different than middle-class Christians.

My oldest son leads a ministry in Galveston similar to Mission Waco called Galveston Urban Ministries and lives in a poor neighborhood with four children. We adopted our Hispanic daughter at age 3 from the parents of an ex-offender and prostitute.

My wife is the hero in our family. She dove deeply into the lives of our poor neighbors and now leads our global missions. We love how God has used us and the joy it has brought all of us.

How has your ministry or your perspective on ministry changed?

We work from a model of ministry called Christian community development that has basic principles on helping and empowering others I never knew in early ministry.

How do you expect ministry to change in the next 10 to 20 years?

I think for the Western church to flourish, it must change dramatically, though it may take more years of diminishing fruit to get the American church there. It must adopt many of the principles of Christian community development, reduce its dependency on buildings and high-salaried church staff, and allow God to prune us to become servants in the culture.

Name the three most significant challenges and/or influences facing your ministry.

As pastor of Church Under the Bridge, our challenges are (1) needing professional assistance for those with mental disabilities in our congregation and community, (2) learning how to build a team to be a greater advocate against systemic injustice, and (3) personally, the wisdom to know how to use my time wisely as I “age out.”

What do you wish more laypeople knew about ministry or, specifically, your ministry?

I wish more would come experience Mission Waco’s poverty simulation and visit those ministries, as well as experience Church Under the Bridge. Reading my books Commonwealth: Transformation through Christian Community Development and Trolls & Truth: 14 Realities about Today’s Church that We Don’t Want to See would challenge those who don’t want to visit.

I also wish more would learn how we empower others—including the poor—to engage in ministry, as well as how we do microloans for the poorest of the poor in Haiti.

If you could get one “do over” in ministry, what would it be, and why?

Nothing. We have loved our life in ministry and thank God for it.

Have you ever been so disappointed with Christian ministry that you considered leaving it?

Only the “church staff” roles that boxed in the gifts God provided us.

About Baptists

Why are you Baptist?

Honestly, I am not sure what that means to me anymore. While I appreciate what I learned in my home church, the two Baptist churches where I served on staff—particularly West Memorial Baptist Church with Ralph Neighbour Jr.—and some of the theological training I received—mostly at Eastern Baptist Seminary—the label “Baptist” has been confused and distorted so much, I rarely use it.

The denomination is far behind and losing ground. My world with the unchurched works better without denominational labels and traditions, though I still think my theological roots are grounded in many Baptist precepts, as well as in the radical Reformation and church renewal movements.

What are the key issues facing Baptists—denominationally and/or congregationally?

1. An honesty and brokenness about how the culture has usurped our calling and values.
2. The chains of tradition that keep older Baptists from the freedom to become what God desires.
3. The lack of genuine and healthy engagement with and advocacy for the poor and marginalized.
4. The lack of skills in social justice arenas to make a difference in our own culture.

What would you change about the Baptist denomination—state, nation or local?

I have no idea. I think it will take a fresh work of the Holy Spirit to renew our hearts and minds even to begin that renewal process. Yet, I believe God can do that.

About Jimmy

Who were/are your mentors, and how did/do they influence you?

• Ralph Neighbour Jr., created a new model of church even when often criticized.
• Ray Bakke taught me theology in a global context.
• Several Christian Community Development Association leaders like Robert Lupton, Mary Nelson, John Perkins and Wayne Gordon spoke prophetically and lived out the eight principles of Christian community development in their own communities.

Other than the Bible, name some of your favorite books or authors, and explain why.

• Theology as Big as the City by Ray Bakke broadened my call to the global church.
• The Next Evangelicalism by Soon-Chan Rah addressed current messes and yet affirmed my call.
• When Helping Hurts Steve Corbett and Brian Fikkert and Walking with the Poor by Bryant Myers offered a healthier approach to helping the poor.
• Building a People of Power by Robert Linthicum called the church to understand how God can use congregations for change in the culture.
• Transforming Mission by David Bosch provides a broad sweep of Christian history and clarity on theological and historic eras of thinking about mission.
• Divided By Faith by Michael Emerson explains harsh realities of black and white division in our churches.

What is your favorite Bible verse or passage? Why?

Galatians 1:27—the selfless life of Christians—and Galatian 2:10—don’t forget the poor.

Who is your favorite person in the Bible, other than Jesus? Why?

Philip the evangelist, because his willingness to reach out to and baptize the Ethiopian eunuch.

Stephen, the martyred deacon, because he fed the widows and challenged the Jews, while filled with the Spirit.

Name something about you that would surprise people who know you.

I have been an avid table tennis player for 55 years and have played in national tournaments.

Doug Page has been the senior pastor of First Baptist Church in Grapevine since 2013. From deep in the heart of one Texan, he shares his background and thoughts on the church and ministry. To suggest a BGCT-affiliated minister to be featured in this column, or to apply to be featured yourself, click here.

Background

Where else have you served in ministry, and what were your positions there?

• Second Baptist Church in Houston, associate pastor.
• Grandview Fellowship in Sugar Land, lead pastor.
• West University Baptist Church in Houston, campus pastor.
• First Baptist Church in North Augusta, S.C., senior pastor.

Where did you grow up?

I was born in Dallas and raised in Houston.

How did you come to faith in Christ?

On June 1, 1980, just after completing my junior year in high school, my pastor Doice Whitten preached a sermon about salvation being more than simply knowing about Jesus. Salvation is a moment of surrender to follow Jesus. That day, I surrendered my life to him.

I had “prayed the prayer” many times over the years, but this moment was monumental. I knew all the church answers. I could quote many Bible verses. But this day, I was overcome by the grace and mercy of Jesus. I simply needed to let go and place my life into the hands of the One who died for me.

Where were you educated, and what degrees did you receive?

• Bachelor of Business Administration from the University of Houston.
• Master of Divinity with biblical languages from Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary in Fort Worth.

About ministry life

Why do you feel called into ministry?

I was praying in a back room of my home church when I sensed the voice of the Lord calling me into vocational ministry. The impression of the Holy Spirit on my heart was unquestionable. God affirmed his calling on my life through family, ministers and many other indisputable circumstances.

What is your favorite aspect of ministry? Why?

God has called me to shepherd his flock. I love every aspect of shepherding: feeding, leading, correcting and comforting.

What one aspect of ministry gives you the greatest joy?

When someone comes to faith in Jesus and begins to grow in their relationship with him.

What did you learn on the job you wish you learned in seminary?

That church people can sometimes act so mean to each other. I was not prepared for the vicious attacks from so-called Christian people. I would have loved more gut-level discussion about the perils of ministry and how to deal with real-life conflict.

What is the impact of ministry on your family?

I had the privilege of serving for 18 years under Ed Young at Second Baptist Church in Houston. He taught me to value family first and to protect them from the perils of ministry. There are many things I “left at the office,” so my family could worship freely without worrying about the politics of church. Because of that great insight from Dr. Young and others, my kids have enjoyed a somewhat “normal” life as a preacher’s kids.

How has your ministry or your perspective on ministry changed?

In the early days, I put a lot of pressure on myself to build a big church. It almost killed me. I am more focused now on preaching the word of God and smaller group discipleship. I now trust God’s promise to bring the increase as I seek to know and follow him better.

My desire is to lead people to use the influence God has given them to impact their community for the glory of God. I am a much better shepherd than I was in the early days of ministry. I have learned to slow down and look into the faces of those God has called me to serve. By doing this, God alone gets the credit for the increase.

How do you expect ministry to change in the next 10 to 20 years?

2020 brought a sifting to the church in America. COVID-19 shutdowns, race relations, rioting, a contentious election season, and the rise of progressive Christianity has led to a great shaking in the United States. As the church, we must pivot. While standing firmly on the word of God, we must live out the gospel in every area of our lives.

While gathering for worship is obviously important, we must concern ourselves with making relationships with those outside our church walls. We must get out of our “holy huddle” and seek to reach the lost with the good news of Jesus. Like Jesus, we must not be afraid to make relationships with those unlike us.

I hope ministry in the next 10 to 20 years will be the people of God demonstrating the gospel of Jesus in every area of life. I also believe true followers of Jesus will rally more around Jesus than any specific denomination.

Name the three most significant challenges and/or influences facing your ministry.

• Equipping God’s people for life in an increasingly non-Christian America.
• Courageously dealing with the social issues facing our culture.
• Challenging the people of God to live out the gospel in every area of life. May we use our God-given spere of influence to impact this generation for the glory of God.

What do you wish more laypeople knew about ministry or, specifically, your ministry?

Everyone is welcome at First Baptist Church in Grapevine. Church should be messy. All sinners are welcome here. Once here, they will hear the truth of the word of God. We will not avoid the tough topics, but we will address them with compassion and grace.

Knowing what you know now, what would you tell your younger self about ministry?

Settle in your heart that God called you into his ministry, and no one will be able to talk you into quitting. Don’t make walking with God so difficult. Nothing replaces time alone in his word and with his Holy Spirit.

Learn early that some of the most difficult people in your church are hurting and need a touch from God. Love them sacrificially. Always have a trusted friend in whom you can confide.

About Baptists

Why are you Baptist?

I was raised Baptist. I remain Baptist because of our commitment to the inerrant, infallible, powerful, and life-changing word of God.

We are not as narrow-minded and legalistic as some may think. Baptists are known for our love of the word of God. Sometimes, taking a strong stand on biblical truth causes some to think we are haters. Not true! We love the Bible, and we love those who Jesus loves.

What would you change about the Baptist denomination—state, nation or local?

We have gotten way too political. Let’s get back to the basics: preaching the gospel of Jesus, making disciples, helping the less fortunate, influencing our world for the glory of God.

About Doug

Who were/are your mentors, and how did/do they influence you?

Ed Young and Jim DeLoach were my pastors in Houston for many years. They taught me to love the word of God and never back away from teaching God’s truth.

My brother Donnie Page has walked with me on this ministry journey since the very beginning. He always has been only a phone call or cup of coffee away.

As a new Christian, Charles Stanley had a huge influence on my spiritual growth through his television and radio broadcasts.

Other than the Bible, name some of your favorite books or authors, and explain why.

I am tempted to give you this long list of great Christian classics. I love Francis Schaeffer and A.W. Tozer. I have read and loved many of their books. However, two heart-changing books for me are:

• Abba’s Child by Brennan Manning reminds me I am loved by my heavenly Father. Period. When I was given this book, I was at the bottom and ready to quit ministry. I have since read it and recommended it numerous times.
• Fresh Wind, Fresh Fire by Jim Cymbala. I met Pastor Cymbala a few years back, and he is the real deal. This book inspires me to expect God to do great and mighty things as we yield to his leadership above our own.

What is your favorite Bible verse or passage? Why?

Ephesians 3:20-21. We serve a big God who can do big things. God assembled his church to make a huge impact in our generation for the kingdom of God. I long to see God move in such a way that it is undeniably God. When this happens, we will influence our generation with the gospel, and it will be to the glory of God. When we get out of the way, God can and will do immeasurably more than we can ever ask or imagine.

Who is your favorite person in the Bible, other than Jesus? Why?

David. I love his passion for worship. I love his passion for God and for others. I love that he was not perfect. I love that he became a great leader through humility not celebrity.

Name something about you that would surprise people who know you.

I once sang a solo in front of more than 13,000 people in a concert featuring Clay Walker, Cee Cee Winans and Yolanda Adams.

Jordan Villanueva, former lead pastor of Indian Hills Baptist Church in Grand Prairie, recently became instructor of Christian studies in Howard Payne University’s School of Christian Studies. From deep in the heart of one Texan, he shares his background and thoughts on the church and ministry. To suggest a Baptist General Convention of Texas-affiliated leader to be featured in this column, or to apply to be featured yourself, click here.

Background

Where else have you served in ministry, and what were your positions there?

I first served as youth minister at Primera Iglesia Bautista in Brownwood. I then served in the youth ministry at First Baptist Church in El Paso, and then as youth pastor at Grace Temple Baptist Church in Oak Cliff.

Where did you grow up?

I grew up in Azle, just outside of Fort Worth, and attended Primera Iglesia Bautista in Azle. I spent a lot of time growing up on the north side of Fort Worth.

How did you come to faith in Christ?

I grew up in and out of church. I heard the stories, and I heard the gospel. However, I knew of God but did not know him personally. It was not until I was 17 years old that I came to a fork in the road in my life.

I had hit a valley due to the choices I had made. I realized in my mother’s driveway I had been putting my hope in the wrong things. I did not have a typical “walk the aisle” moment. I had the realization, sitting broken on the hood of my car as a teenager in mother’s driveway, I needed to make Jesus the Lord of my life and follow him.

Where were you educated, and what degrees did you receive?

I graduated from Howard Payne University with a Bachelor of Arts in youth ministry and Spanish. I received my Master of Divinity from Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary. I am working on my Ph.D. at Southwestern Seminary, with a focus in church history.

About ministry life

Why do you feel called into ministry?

I received my call to ministry as a teenager at Campamento at Mount Lebanon Camp in Cedar Hill. My dear friend Tiny Dominguez was the speaker and was giving the call for anyone who felt God calling them to serve him in vocational ministry.

I had just graduated high school and was about to begin attending HPU to play soccer, never thinking I would be studying to become a pastor. Yet, at camp that summer in 2008, I felt the Lord calling me to step forward and to serve in this capacity.

It just so happened, that fall I was going to attend a Baptist university with a Christian Studies department. I believe the Lord made that happen.

What is your favorite aspect of ministry? Why?

I really enjoy investing in young people, whether to disciple someone who just recently has come to faith, or even walking alongside younger pastors and ministers. I may not have as much wisdom and experience to give away as some who have been in ministry for decades, but I want to give away what I have to offer.

How has your ministry or your perspective on ministry changed?

I started out in youth ministry. I served in student ministry for seven years. The honest truth was I thought I would be in student ministry forever. The Lord had other plans. Yet, even though my title and responsibilities changed, the foundational principles never did. I have continued to teach truth and love people even in this new context.

How do you expect ministry to change in the next 10 to 20 years?

I see a pruning season coming. Not in the sense of people, but programming. I believe the church has become metaphorical hoarders in the sense we have created this huge institutional cruise ship that is extremely heavy and slow to turn due to all the stuff that has been associated with the church.

I believe the pandemic has shown that type of institution can’t function well in this fast-changing world. The church needs to have the capability to pivot in different ways going forward. I believe we will begin to take away the fluff in this stripping-down process, so we will get back down to the basic fundamentals of what it looks like to love God and love people.

About Baptists

Why are you Baptist?

I became a Baptist by condition and stayed a Baptist by conviction.

I came to know the Lord through the work of the Baptist General Convention of Texas by growing up in a BGCT Hispanic church plant, by attending events such as Congreso, and attending one of the BGCT’s universities. I was conditioned to be a Baptist early on, because that was how I became a follower of Jesus. However, as I grew in age and wisdom, I came to the conviction I am a Texas Baptist.

I come to this conviction through theological means. First, I agree with the ecclesiological position of Baptists when it comes to who makes up the local church and how the local church is autonomous yet cooperates with others. I also hold to the theological position of the priesthood of the believer. I believe Jesus is our great mediator, and through his mediation, we all have direct access to the Father. Finally, I affirm the right of religious freedom every person has.

What are the key issues facing Baptists—denominationally and/or congregationally?

The biggest issue I see is the lack of grace I see spewed out on social media among ourselves. Jesus says, “By this they will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.” Right now, it does not look like we are Jesus’ disciples.

Unfortunately, we have begun to draw lines in the sand again. If this continues, at some point there will be no one else in the circle with us. The early church was described in Acts as having all things in common. They definitely had their differences culturally, socially and linguistically. Yet Jesus was the commonality.

Jesus brings unity. Before saying, “I disagree,” we must first say “I understand.” Then, if we still disagree, we do so in love and still have the ability to cooperate with one another for the sake of the gospel.

What would you change about the Baptist denomination—state, nation or local?

I would love to be part of the generation that brings the two state conventions in Texas back together. I obviously was not around when the split happened, but I have heard the stories. I’ve seen the scars.

The truth is, that fight was not my fight. I believe there were a lot of hurt feelings during that tumultuous time. But hopefully, we have come to realize we agree a lot more than we disagree when it comes to doctrine and pragmatism.

About Jordan

Who were/are your mentors, and how did/do they influence you?

There are three men the Lord used to shape me into who I am today. The first individual influenced me from afar. Jon Randles was so influential in my early years as a follower of Christ and in my preparation for ministry. I had the opportunity to learn from Jon from a distance by hearing him at Congreso, revivals at Howard Payne University, and for undergraduate seminars at HPU. He helped instill the mindset I have today that I am not called to be anyone else but who the Lord has made me to be, and I should do so in boldness.

My dear friend Tiny Dominguez often was a speaker at Congreso and Campamento growing up. Also, because of mutual friends, I had the opportunity to learn from him up close. He was the preacher who delivered the call in which I received my call to ministry.

Tiny was instrumental in showing me what it looks like to be a Hispanic preacher. He also modeled what humility looks like in a preacher. No matter how big a platform he may have had, he always had time to talk to some kid from Azle. I am grateful to this day that I still receive phone calls from Tiny, checking in on me and telling me he is praying for me. Also, I would like to think Tiny’s humor influenced me a lot in my own preaching, although I would like to think I’m funnier.

The Lord used my father-in-law Dr. David Lowrie Jr. to show me what it looks like to pastor a church well and still be a wonderful husband and father. David gave me a chance to intern at his church, First Baptist Church in El Paso, after I graduated from HPU. During my internship, I always would look forward to my weekly time with him when we walked through God’s word together. David was one of the first preachers who really made God’s word come alive for me. I developed a hunger for God’s word I still have today because of his preaching.

I am grateful for the opportunity I was given to see him away from the church, as well. He is the same person at home he is at church. Obviously, I am grateful to have the opportunity to be married to his sweet daughter Jamie. He always tells people, if we would have known I was going to marry his daughter, he would have asked harder questions when I was interviewing for the internship. I’m blessed to be able to call David family.

What did you learn on the job you wish you learned in seminary?

I wish I would have taken the course Pandemics 101.

Other than the Bible, name some of your favorite books or authors, and explain why.

I recommend Augustine’s City of God to anyone wrestling with the current state of our culture and nation, though it is a massive work.

I also enjoy a lot of Thomas Aquinas’ scholastic works. One of my favorites is his Commentary on Aristotle’s Physics.

The last old author I recommend is Jonathan Edwards. I am grateful for Dr. Caldwell from Southwestern Seminary for fostering a love within me for arguably our nation’s greatest theological mind. I recommend starting with Edward’s writing on the freedom of the will.

A recent work that has blessed me tremendously in light of the pandemic and recent cultural shifts is Tod Bolsinger’s Canoeing the Mountains. It is one of those leadership books that will go down in history as an all-time classic when it comes to navigating leadership land mines in a Christian context.

What is your favorite Bible verse or passage? Why?

My life verse always has been Ephesians 3:20-21. “Now to him who is able to do far more abundantly than all that we ask or think, according to the power at work within us, to him be glory in the church and in Christ Jesus throughout all generations, forever and ever. Amen.”

I have a pretty vivid imagination, and yet the Lord still blows me away with his grace and the ways he blesses me on a daily basis. Never would I have expected the Lord would bring me to the place I am today. We all have heard of that old cowboy proverb: “You know what happened if you see a turtle on a fence post. You know it did not get there on its own.”

Todd Roberson is the president and CEO of Children at Heart Ministries in Round Rock, where he has served since 2011. From deep in the heart of one Texan, he shares his background and thoughts on leadership and family ministry. To suggest a Baptist General Convention of Texas-affiliated leader to be featured in this column, or to apply to be featured yourself, click here.

Background

Where else have you worked, and what were your positions?

I served as assistant business administrator, vice president of business administration, vice president of development, chief operating officer, interim president and CEO, and president and CEO of South Texas Children’s Home Ministries in Beeville 1992 to 2011.

Where did you grow up?

I was born in Lubbock and later moved to Houston.

How did you come to faith in Christ?

I was blessed by parents who modeled Christ and his love from the day I was born into their home. It came naturally to me to grow in my understanding of Christ as a child.

During revival services at First Baptist Church in Lubbock when I was in second grade, I came to the point of placing everything I knew of myself into the hands of everything I knew about Christ and his love, trusting everything else by faith in Christ.

Where were you educated, and what degrees did you receive?

• Baylor University, Bachelor of Business Administration, 1989.
• Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary, Master of Arts in religious education, 1992.

About ministry

Why do you feel called to your particular vocation?

My father was in full-time church ministry as the minister of education at the churches where we were members. I had a natural inclination toward business, and in high school believed God was leading me toward full-time ministry, probably as the church business administrator in a church.

I thought about going to Baylor University to major in business with an emphasis in insurance and management, as well as taking some electives in areas of ministry. During my senior year at Baylor, again during a revival service, I committed to full-time Christian ministry, still thinking I was headed toward a bivocational life in the local church.

Toward the end of my last semester at Southwestern Seminary, Jack Green called me from South Texas Children’s Home to see if I would consider coming to work in their business office. I thanked Dr. Green for calling, but respectfully declined, thinking: God called me to be a church business administrator; who is Jack Green, and what is South Texas Children’s Home; and where is Beeville, and isn’t that really close to Mexico? Being a native Texan and growing up as a Texas Baptist, you might think I knew some of these things, but I didn’t.

Dr. Green was a persistent and certain man. He continued to dialogue with my wife Jill and me. Even after I told him “no” nicely, he called one day to say he had some meetings to attend in the Dallas area, and he wondered if he could come by one evening and take Jill and me to dinner at a steak place in Fort Worth.

Now, I may not be very smart, but Jill was a school teacher, and I was a seminary student working part-time in the purchasing department at the seminary. Who were we to turn down a steak dinner and meeting a new friend?

Dr. Green convinced us to come to South Texas and see the South Texas Children’s Home and meet some of the staff. And the rest, as they say, is history.

I began to learn God’s calling often is bigger and broader than what we necessarily can imagine from our limited perspective and experience. In hindsight, it is really obvious. But at the time, it was a crossroads of trying to discern God’s calling and how that would relate to what I did vocationally.

I never could have expressed as a high school or college student this was where God was leading me. However, at just the right time and giving what I knew of myself to what I understood as God’s direction for my future, the calling I thought was to church business actually was to the business side of things related to the day-to-day ministry to children and families through the South Texas Children’s Home and related ministries of Texas Baptists.

Please tell us about your Texas Baptist institution—the breadth and nature of its work, including its mission, measures of scope, etc.

Children At Heart Ministries is a family of ministries dedicated to transforming the lives of all children and families. Our ministries provide those most vulnerable with the support and structure they need to find hope, heal and put their lives back on track.

CAHM provides administrative, organizational and other support on a no-cost basis to a family of Christian ministries comprised of Gracewood in Houston, Miracle Farm outside of Brenham, and STARRY and Texas Baptist Children’s Home headquartered in Round Rock.

Gracewood rescues and restores children and their single mothers, teaching basic tools needed to make long-term, quality-of-life improvements.

Miracle Farm is a ranch for at-risk teenage boys who want to change their lives for the better. The ranch includes an innovative horse program, vocational training and support services promoting conflict resolution, appropriate behavior, goal setting, academic success and family reunification.

STARRY nurtures children, strengthens families and restores hope through counseling, foster care and adoption. STARRY counseling services currently are in 31 counties across Texas.

Texas Baptist Children’s Home, our original ministry founded in 1950, provides a safe home and a stable family environment where children and their single mothers and youth aging out of foster care or facing homelessness can learn, grow and ultimately experience a happy, healthy future.

What aspect(s) of your institution and/or its mission do you wish more people understood?

Having grown up in Texas and being a lifelong Texas Baptist, I realize how difficult it is for our churches and their members to get their arms around all the various people served across the Texas Baptists family through the ministry institutions.

I would love Texas Baptist churches and people to understand better what they support when they give through the Cooperative Program. Each church has the wonderful opportunity to be a part of ministry work through children’s homes, universities, hospitals, retirement communities and so much more. Even visiting the exhibit area at the Baptist General Convention of Texas annual meeting doesn’t give you much more than a snapshot of what each ministry does.

I would encourage Texas Baptists to reach out and be involved with one of the ministry organizations near them or that stirs their hearts and interests them. It is through serving, being involved, volunteering, being a trustee, a prayer partner, an advocate and other ways that you begin to realize the difference being made in the lives of people every day.

Encourage your church or a group from your church to invest time and treasure with these ministries. Suddenly, you realize the blessing it is to you as an individual or a group to be involved.

How has your institution and its mission changed since you began your career?

The stigma for people reaching out for help seems to have increased. Costs have escalated in so many ways. Fundraising is even more of a necessity.

The need to be multi-focused and diversified in ministry has grown over the years, though our mission has remained the same. We continue to exist to honor God and build a better world by serving children and strengthening families. However, our ministries have extended their footprint and services.

Residential child care has changed drastically the way children get to a children’s home. Focus has increased toward meeting the needs of the whole family when possible.

Much more has been learned about the impacts of trauma on individuals, and especially on children in their earliest years. Our organizations likewise have learned to help people work through the impacts of trauma to reach their full potential better.

How do you expect your institution and/or its mission to change in the next 10 to 20 years?

We will continue to need to do more with less. Adapting and adjusting will continue to be the name of the game. As a family of ministries, I anticipate the need to continue to diversify the ways we seek to meet the needs of children and families in our communities.

There might be a need to add another ministry or two to the family of ministries. Likewise, one of our ministries could grow and develop to the point of being self-sustaining and independent from the family of ministries.

About Baptists

Why are you Baptist?

Every moment of my life has been greatly influenced by Texas Baptist churches and institutions.

The big principles and guiding values that cause me to want to be a Texas Baptist include the Bible as God’s written, divinely inspired revelation of himself to each of us, the priesthood of every believer, soul competency, believer’s baptism, salvation because of Jesus Christ and his gift of eternal life, religious freedom, the separation of church and state, local church autonomy, missions, evangelism, the priority of social issues and Christian education.

What are the key issues facing Baptists?

Remaining relevant to current and future generations, while also remaining steadfast to traditional Baptist values and upholding biblical truths without diluting them to meet the times.

Similarly, Baptists have got to find a way to fill the proverbial donut hole in the church. Twenty to 40-year-olds are leaving in droves as they finish college, get married and begin work. Many see Sundays as just another day to relax, go to brunch and enjoy the outdoors, or consider it all as an encounter with God’s world. Others are leaving Baptist churches to be part of other denominations or nondenominational churches that “meet” their needs better.

As Texas Baptists, I hope we can come up with a consistent plan that helps this age group re-engage with the local church where they see God’s love in action and where they are empowered to help be the future leaders of the church.

About Todd

Who were/are your mentors, and how did/do they influence you?

My dad and mom, Charles and Van Roberson, have modeled the Christian life in public and in our home all my life.

Roy and Bennie Roberts, my adopted parents through Columbus Avenue Baptist Church in Waco while I was a student at Baylor, loved and cared for me during a pivotal time in life. They showed me how to reach out to others and were another set of parents who lived out their Christian faith in front of college students.

My parents-in-law, Tom and Jan Purdy, raised three great children, one of whom is my wife Jill. They have modeled the value of talking and listening, as well as reaching out to all sorts of people in all walks of life. At Thanksgiving and Christmas, you never knew who would be at the dinner table with you. It may be a college student who couldn’t go home for the holidays, a professor or neighbor who was alone for the holidays, a widow or widower recently alone, someone from another country who definitely was a long way from home. They model hospitality and compassion well.

Jill’s and my grandparents were some of the wisest, poorest, very educated, undereducated, hardworking, loving, caring, giving people we have been privileged to have in our lives.

Jack Green, Mickey Hurry, Homer Hanna, Mark Childs, Greg Huskey and T.J. Burris helped and guided me as mentors and friends in the early years of ministry with children and families at South Texas Children’s Home.

Jerry Bradley, Don Cramer, Don Forrester, Dawson Clark, Stephanie Ochoa, Kirk Kriegel, Maynard Phillips, Keith Dyer, Debbie Rippstein, Alex Hamilton, Richard Singleton, Jenny Rice Cotton and many more have helped me learn the ropes at Children at Heart Ministries. They have been in the trenches, as well as friends.

Lots of trustees of the various organizations where I have served the last 29 years. Their wisdom and wit are invaluable as we have sought and continue to seek to be the very best we can be.

Greg and Nancy Traylor, our Beeville pastor and his wife, are real people and real friends who live out their faith consistently in the church, the community and their home.

Who is your favorite person in the Bible, other than Jesus? Why?

As a boy in the temple, Samuel had the sensitivity to know he was being called, but he didn’t realize yet it was the Lord calling him (1 Samuel 3:1-21). Eli the priest helped him identify it was the Lord calling and to say the next time it happened, “Speak, for your servant is listening.”

I also like the frantic father concerned for his son (Mark 9:14-29). He brought his son to Jesus’ disciples, so they would heal him from an unclean spirit. The disciples couldn’t do it. The father asked Jesus if he could, and Jesus said to him: “‘If you can?’ All things are possible for the one who believes.” The boy’s father cried out: “I do believe; help my unbelief!”

I see myself in the father’s response: “I do believe; help my unbelief!” How many times do I shortchange what God can and/or wants to do in my life? I find myself thinking, “I believe, but help my unbelief.”

When we ask God to do something, and he does it, we shouldn’t be surprised. We are reminded of his care for the birds of the air and the flowers in the field, and how much more he cares for us. Help my unbelief.

EDITOR’S NOTE: The name of South Texas Children’s Home was incorrectly edited in the fifth question and has been updated.

Peter. Peter screwed up over and over and over again, and I do, too. I have a little trouble relating to someone who learns lessons quickly. I need to be wrong many times before I finally get the picture. I wish this wasn’t the case, of course, but alas, here I am.